I disagree with OP too.
An ISU152 well supported is a beast that chews both infantry and armor. Perhaps in 1vs1 is not seen often as it demands a lot of resources, but in team games it can face everything besides an elefant.
ISU-152
10 Dec 2013, 04:06 AM
#21
Posts: 971
10 Dec 2013, 04:12 AM
#22
Posts: 598
ISU152 is anti everything.
Elefant is an dedicated tank destroyer and it performs poorly against infantry.
need any more explanations? the cost may be a little too much but it performs good enough.
Elefant is an dedicated tank destroyer and it performs poorly against infantry.
need any more explanations? the cost may be a little too much but it performs good enough.
10 Dec 2013, 05:41 AM
#23
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Ahhhh...Mechanized Support. My choice when facing a possible Elephant/Tiger Ace doctrine on 2v2+.
Mark Target - Guards - Bombing Strike - PERFECT for taking down the TD beast.
ISU wipes squads/deals quite decent damage to tanks (also shocks) with its normal shot and it has an ability that lets you snipe squads or paks.
Mark Target - Guards - Bombing Strike - PERFECT for taking down the TD beast.
ISU wipes squads/deals quite decent damage to tanks (also shocks) with its normal shot and it has an ability that lets you snipe squads or paks.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
10 Dec 2013, 06:21 AM
#24
Posts: 46
Are you kidding? the ISU is a beast!
You're spot on. The ISUs an absolute terror. Makes a mess of infantry and PAKs as well as stunning Tigers with every other shot.
10 Dec 2013, 06:46 AM
#25
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
I am really impressed. You obviously spent some time on that subject, with nice spreadsheets, bold headlines and all - but yet managed to get your conclusion 100% wrong.
copying other peoples spreadsheets doesnt take long
it also doesnt mean he understands what hes talking about. for one, he thinks that higher angle and distance scatter are advantageous. hes also comparing an assault gun with 2 tank destroyers as if that proves something. didnt even mention deflection damage or crew shock. "slightly buffed su85" hahah
10 Dec 2013, 08:36 AM
#26
Posts: 258
I think elephant should have a higher chance to become critically damaged with every shot.
10 Dec 2013, 09:43 AM
#27
Posts: 1162
The glory days of the RAM are over. The ISU-152 has low suitability when compared to the IS/2 or Elephant. On top that, it costs more. There are plenty of ways to counter it effectively without having to resort to shenanigans that are all to common for taking out an Elephant or King Tiger.
Ram may have been nerfed, but it's still quite reliable for taking out heavy tanks when you throw two at it from opposite sides.
Like someone said above, guards, MT and IL2 bombing run are amazing tools against heavy armour.
10 Dec 2013, 11:13 AM
#28
15 
Posts: 786
ISU is great, it's just not that viable in 1v1s, but in 2v2 upwards it's a good choice in plenty of situations.
a slight survivability buff wouldn't hurt for sure but it doesn't really need to be repurposed
a slight survivability buff wouldn't hurt for sure but it doesn't really need to be repurposed
10 Dec 2013, 19:24 PM
#29
Posts: 337
ISU152 is quite good in team games, and useable in 1v1s.
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10 Dec 2013, 22:06 PM
#30
Posts: 2561
Like someone said above, guards, MT and IL2 bombing run are amazing tools against heavy armour.
They are, but they are also all doctrinal. There is very little soviets have in their non-doctrinal units that can really present any danger to an elephant.
The only thing I can think of would be to damage the engine and bring at guns into range.
10 Dec 2013, 22:31 PM
#31
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
They are, but they are also all doctrinal. There is very little soviets have in their non-doctrinal units that can really present any danger to an elephant.
The only thing I can think of would be to damage the engine and bring at guns into range.
This is somewhat off topic, but the Elephant is also doctrinal. Indeed without doctrinal units the Soviets will need to defeat the Elephant with combined arms, but it is very doable. A two SU85's can kill and elephant before it can turn around if they get shots on the rear armor.
The elephant is hard to deal with, that's the point. It costs almost as much as a full army to deploy and it is made to deny Soviet armor one part of the map. Consider moving your forces to another area of the map to deal with it. The Ost player has to to keep forces around their Elephant at all times to protect it. Meaning 50% or more of their man power is in play in an area you know about.
10 Dec 2013, 22:38 PM
#32
Posts: 420
I stopped reading, when you started to compare the ISU with the Elefant.
The Elefant is a pure Tank DESTROYER with 0 Anti Infantry capabilities. The ISU is able to fight Tanks and Infantry, actually it's a slow IS2 with more range and no turret.
The ISU 152 is not meant to destroy heavy german tanks like the panther or tiger or elefant. IT is meant support your army with heavy fire and deal damage to anything. That's why it can wipe german squads with a single shot and deal also good damage to tanks, but it will always be fragile in a 1v1 tank combat situation
The Elefant is a pure Tank DESTROYER with 0 Anti Infantry capabilities. The ISU is able to fight Tanks and Infantry, actually it's a slow IS2 with more range and no turret.
The ISU 152 is not meant to destroy heavy german tanks like the panther or tiger or elefant. IT is meant support your army with heavy fire and deal damage to anything. That's why it can wipe german squads with a single shot and deal also good damage to tanks, but it will always be fragile in a 1v1 tank combat situation
I will simply lol at anyone expecting such a change to a 2 year old general use infantry.
Equally possible are pershing for USF, IS-3 for soviets or ober nerf for OKW.
11 Dec 2013, 00:44 AM
#33
Posts: 1162
They are, but they are also all doctrinal. There is very little soviets have in their non-doctrinal units that can really present any danger to an elephant.
The only thing I can think of would be to damage the engine and bring at guns into range.
The reason I stated that combination of units, is because they come in the doctrine with the ISU, which is the unit we are discussing.
Someone tried to say the ISU sucks Vs the Tiger.. but as someone else pointed out, all these abilities can really help you combat an Elefant with an ISU
11 Dec 2013, 01:17 AM
#34
Posts: 2561
The reason I stated that combination of units, is because they come in the doctrine with the ISU, which is the unit we are discussing.
Someone tried to say the ISU sucks Vs the Tiger.. but as someone else pointed out, all these abilities can really help you combat an Elefant with an ISU
True, I was just trying to explain that the elephant is much harder to destroy then the isu, but that's probably a discussion for a different thread.
11 Dec 2013, 02:36 AM
#35
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
ISU152 is anti everything.
need any more explanations? the cost may be a little too much but it performs good enough.
I get this now. My proposal/issue was unclear and comparing it to a dedicated tank killer was unjust.
In the current game with all the DLC commanders I question the need for the Soviets to have another generalist unit, especially one with such a high cost. The Soviets have two dedicated anti armor units, the ZiS (although one could argue that with the light artillery) and the SU85. This leaves a significant gap in late game anti armor capabilities. The ISU-152 could alleviate this with some stat adjustments such as additional penetration. Another idea would be to remove the concrete shot and replace it with a anti armor shot. Keeping with the historic side of things the anti armor shot ability would align.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
11 Dec 2013, 10:05 AM
#36
Posts: 1162
The way Relic has designed soviets, is not to have too overly powerful units vs armour.. I.e. no heavy tanks that kick the sh*t out of any German armour.
That is the forte of the Germans.
The entire flow of the game is about soviets applying pressure, draining German manpower and cutting off fuel, to prevent them massing too many of their inherently strong tanks.
If soviets play correctly, they will outnumber the more heavily, better armed German tanks as they hit the field.
It's the job of the soviet to defeat those units while they are few.
It's the job of the German to micro those units well to increase their resource flow (map control), hopefully whittle down soviet numbers, and wait for more nasty tanks to arrive.
This is why you do not compare soviet and German armour, because they are designed to be unbalanced, but soviets are also designed with an inherent advantage on early pressure (as long as you apply it).
That is the forte of the Germans.
The entire flow of the game is about soviets applying pressure, draining German manpower and cutting off fuel, to prevent them massing too many of their inherently strong tanks.
If soviets play correctly, they will outnumber the more heavily, better armed German tanks as they hit the field.
It's the job of the soviet to defeat those units while they are few.
It's the job of the German to micro those units well to increase their resource flow (map control), hopefully whittle down soviet numbers, and wait for more nasty tanks to arrive.
This is why you do not compare soviet and German armour, because they are designed to be unbalanced, but soviets are also designed with an inherent advantage on early pressure (as long as you apply it).
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