Soviet Industry needs to be nerfed.

true, but this is kinda maddening.

t34 is effective now because they came so early and there wasnt really an effective counter, not because they were good at what they did. they are still the most micro intensive tank because of their filmsy armour and kinda worthless main gun.

now they are pushed back the timing where they are the most useless, which is on par with their counters paks/stugs/p4. combine that with the scatter nerf, they are situational against infantry, requires large amount of support before they can hit anything and they still cannot deal with any armour when stugs and panzer4 outgun/outarmour them.

so relic is pretty much forcing a more infantry based early game for soviets industry, yet are not doing anything to mitigate the incapabilities for industry to support a sizeable infantry force.

i may be only theory crafting, but i see industry tactics to be unsustainable once the patch kicks in.

Why dont you go to tier 4 then mate? soviet industry is equipped with awesome AI tanks so complement them with AT tanks.

SI should still be great. It just won't give you a quick cheesy T70 rush win anymore. It'll still let you poop out T34s like no tomorrow and have ridiculously cheap/fast repairs.

Why dont you go to tier 4 then mate? soviet industry is equipped with awesome AI tanks so complement them with AT tanks.

AI is at 9 cp, stall until then?

AI is at 9 cp, stall until then?

Their are still maxims snipers and penals for ai purposes

I agree this will dramatically change how soviet industry plays, and I suspect this will move it in the team game realm. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but if you are hoping to keep it as a strat to fast rush to tanks by skipping inf, I suspect it will no longer be able to deliver.

Why dont you go to tier 4 then mate? soviet industry is equipped with awesome AI tanks so complement them with AT tanks.

i could, that means a delayed kv2.

Their are still maxims snipers and penals for ai purposes

im not sure how to sustain reinforcements once the passive kicks in, especially with penals and maxims who are likely to take huge casualties for every casualty they do.

I agree this will dramatically change how soviet industry plays, and I suspect this will move it in the team game realm. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but if you are hoping to keep it as a strat to fast rush to tanks by skipping inf, I suspect it will no longer be able to deliver.

im more concerned about the infantry that were invested early, since they will be generally unsustainable once the passive kicks in.

i could, that means a delayed kv2.



im not sure how to sustain reinforcements once the passive kicks in, especially with penals and maxims who are likely to take huge casualties for every casualty they do.



im more concerned about the infantry that were invested early, since they will be generally unsustainable once the passive kicks in.

As I said before if you specialise only in AI you are in trouble when the Germans start pumping out panthers or tigers. ram may safe your behind from time to time but most matches will end in a loss.

Maybe, just maybe this commander would be useful again if it got its ability to make fast buildings back. Or is somenone using it as it is at the moment?

Maybe, just maybe this commander would be useful again if it got its ability to make fast buildings back. Or is somenone using it as it is at the moment?

I've seen many people in teamgames using it yet. 4 T34's at minute 10...

I've seen many people in teamgames using it yet. 4 T34's at minute 10...

No one really cares about 4v4.

No one really cares about 4v4.

To be fair Relic does. They have built some commanders purposely for larger team games and as such SI may now be relegated to team games. This is not good or bad per se, it just is.

I wouldn't say "no one really cares about 4v4". It's the most played game mode, especially appealing to more casual players and ones that enjoy the cinematic fights. With the recent patch I'd guess it even became playable!

No one really cares about 4v4.

Hope this would be too long.

No one really cares about 4v4.

Some people want play this game with friends and have clans.

Then let me rephrase:
No one cares for 4v4 if you're looking for a competitive game.

No one really cares about 4v4.

Ly cheesus, the kindest and smartest person of the CoH2.org forum just answered me!

I DO care about teamgames, because its my favorite mode and like someone else said, I enjoy cinematic battles, so please, learn to be polite.

Then let me rephrase:
No one cares for 4v4 if you're looking for a competitive game.

Everyone who plays 4v4 cares! No one wants to play an unbalanced game except those who like to run around in OP tanks and theose poeple can go screw themselves. 4v4 is far from unbalancable it's just that relic is ignoring it at the moment. The biggest issues in large team games at the moment are Opels effecting everyone and Panthers.

And you have a problem here.
Game can't be balanced for 1v1 games AND 4v4.

Not with asymmetrical factions that have different strengths on different game phases, because strengths and weaknesses will always be enhanced by the number of units/players.

There is no way around that.

Hell, with current industry its probably most balanced for 4v4 as T34 quantity have a chance to overcome panther/tiger spam that rolls over everything effortlessly.

And you have a problem here.
Game can't be balanced for 1v1 games AND 4v4.

Not with asymmetrical factions that have different strengths on different game phases, because strengths and weaknesses will always be enhanced by the number of units/players.

There is no way around that.

This is true, especially with the way Soviets are designed. Why Relic decided to put a faction that is literally supposed to defeat the enemy combined arms relying on solely half of their tech tree is beyond me (you can backtech to T2 but isn't always feasible and you simply can't have both T3 and T4).

This implies that half the Soviet tech tree, in a balanced 1v1 state, must be equal to the whole of the Ostheer tech tree (although I suppose T4 Ostheer isn't really viable in 1v1 so there is that factor). Check out what happens when you switch to 2v2 with that logic.

This effect does disappear in larger games but is very apparent in 2v2 (think 1CP Guards+Shocks last patch or T34+SU85).

What happened to that one idea where people suggested a cheaper cost for Soviet backteching (build T1/T2 for regular price, build the other for a cheaper price, same with T3/T4)? This would allow the game to be balanced a hell lot easier for more modes I feel as the 1v1 experience would not be so jarringly different from the team games where Soviets actually have access to all of their tech tree (it'll probably lessen a lot of the balance bickering too as 1v1-only players have a huge difference in opinion and ingame playstyle to teamgame-only players to players who play both).

This is true, especially with the way Soviets are designed. Why Relic decided to put a faction that is literally supposed to defeat the enemy combined arms relying on solely half of their tech tree is beyond me (you can backtech to T2 but isn't always feasible and you simply can't have both T3 and T4).

This implies that half the Soviet tech tree, in a balanced 1v1 state, must be equal to the whole of the Ostheer tech tree (although I suppose T4 Ostheer isn't really viable in 1v1 so there is that factor). Check out what happens when you switch to 2v2 with that logic.

This effect does disappear in larger games but is very apparent in 2v2 (think 1CP Guards+Shocks last patch or T34+SU85).

What happened to that one idea where people suggested a cheaper cost for Soviet backteching (build T1/T2 for regular price, build the other for a cheaper price, same with T3/T4)? This would allow the game to be balanced a hell lot easier for more modes I feel as the 1v1 experience would not be so jarringly different from the team games where Soviets actually have access to all of their tech tree (it'll probably lessen a lot of the balance bickering too as 1v1-only players have a huge difference in opinion and ingame playstyle to teamgame-only players to players who play both).

This is probably a discussion for another thread, but I think the problem lies in both T4 and the panther. I think tier 4 should become more exessible with a lower cost to reach it, but also have the panther come more in line with other medium tanks with lower health but increase it's range so it is more of a long range tanks destroyer like tank that's vulnerable to flanks but can hold out longer from the front then other tanks thanks to it's high armor.

As it is now T4 essentially gives the germans access to units that give an effectiveness that soviets can only partially match with doctrinal call-ins. T4 should be an excessible option that provides the germans with more veriety of units. Not simply stronger units that the soviets simply can't match with their non-doctrinal line-up.