Is it just me or Ostheer are just pathetic at this point?

Correct me if i'm wrong:

Stug 3 + Tier 1 and 3 buildings + teching cost: 180 fuel

+10 Tier 1 building
+25 Battle phase 1
+35 Battle phase 2
+35 Tier 3 building
+95 Stug 3
-20 starting fuel


T70 + Molotov + Tier 1 and 3 buildings: 160 fuel

+25 Molotov
+40 Tier 1 building
+90 Tier 3 building
+55 T70
-50 starting fuel


These numbers only work under the assumption of equal map control. 5 Conscripts with molotovs WILL hold more map than anything the ostheer T1 can provide. The Stug comes several minutes to late, in which you most likely will lose total map control. Plus, the Soviets have more manpower to spend until both units hit the field.

Even a fuel cache won't make a difference, because +3 fuel equals one normal territory point (which you most certainly won't posses at that point).

Oh dear, it seems that I have been spewing nonsense in some threads! I was under the impression that german battlephase 1 was 15 fuel instead of 25. The T3 building is 25 rather than 35 fuel though, so in the end the soviets can get the T70 for 10 fuel cheaper than a german can get a STUGIII. For the same price if they go for T2 rather than T1.

And your card is? Everyone else has shown theirs.

No Nullist, I'm not going to let you continue to turn these forums into an epeen contest.

Especially how you immediately jump to attacking any perceived stats issue, ignoring your own, instead of addressing the arguments, then pretend at acquiescence when people prove their stats superiority over you.

You were the first to ask, you deal with it.

If you find my info, feel free to post it, I'm not scared of mine or anyone's stats, but I won't indulge your strange hypocritical stats elitism any more.

Only 11 games as soviets kind of means you need to do the same and play Soviets.

>>Yet wont post own playercard.

Nuff said.

@Paranoia: Try to keep 1 fuel point safe and try to cutoff your opponent's fuel point. Also enhance your micro/tactical skills by constant playing; it will definitely solve many problems. Watch replays/casts of superior players to look what they're doing.

Micro is not an issue most of the cases, I lost to complete morons who couldnt hit me with molotovs, but with shere numbers or 1 fcking T-70.
And the fact that soviets have easier time housecamping is retarded

It may cost more fuel but soviets start with more, at 50 fuel, germans start with 20.

For soviets it is 25f for molotoves, 40f for t1, 90f for t3 and 55f for t-70 - 50 starting fuel = 160f for a t-70 it is 170f if soviet goes t2

For germans it is 10f for t1, 25f for bp1, 35f for bp2, 24 f for t3, and 95 fuel for stug - 20 starting fuel = 170, so at best it is equal cost and in most situations it is 10f more.

10f is roughly about half a minute in fuel income, slightly less, if the map is split evenly and you aren't cutoff. At the same time the stug takes longer to build so even if you got it supper fast the t-70 should have about a minute or so free reign probably more considering the time it takes the stug to get on the field and find the t-70 and then, hopefully, kill it, this is plenty of time for the soviet player to take most of the map, lay a bunch of mines, kill a few of your sqauds, and get extra fuel to start pumping out t-34's. So it isn't just black and white of just going stug. However considering how close their cost is it is probably your best bet in a super competitive game, if you know they are likely to get t-70's or t-34's.

The biggest problem most germans are having atm though is holding atleast half the map to get to that point I think.

The StugIII does provide the advantage of being a rather solid anti tank gun to face the next tank that rolls out of soviet T3. Whereas a T1->T3 soviet player only has mines (and guards) to halt the StugIII. If he wants to get AT nades then that will be another 25 fuel, which can buy you a second stugIII by the time his first T34 rolls out.

Holding half the map as germans can be tricky, especially so on maps like Somoisky where there are easily rushed buildings next to the fuel points. This however is not so much a balance issue as it is a map-design issue. Maps like Langreskaya and Kholdney Ferma have a much greater balance due to the placement of the buildings (though both have their own problems in terms of cut offs).

Only Soviet Industry and Elite troops commanders are OP. If both sides play any of the other commanders, it's pretty even.

Only Soviet Industry and Elite troops commanders are OP. If both sides play any of the other commanders, it's pretty even.

I tend to disagree there is one minor thing the moment ostheer have 1 gren soviets already have 2

Only Soviet Industry and Elite troops commanders are OP. If both sides play any of the other commanders, it's pretty even.

I would say the soviet defensive doctrine is also too strong at the moment.

I tend to disagree there is one minor thing the moment ostheer have 1 gren soviets already have 2

Apart from the p2w content,the factions are balanced IMO...

Defensive Doctrine seems too powerful at the moment, only because of the 0 CP DSHK, which basically works like the MG42 during the dark times of MG ridiculousness.

It requires an early counter build, which was the exact same issue I have with other things that people say are balanced due to the early counter build requirement. Railroading builds in CoH2 kind of goes against what CoH is. Sure, countering is a good thing, but not so when it dictates the entire game.

Same thing for late counter builds like trying to stop the Tiger Ace.

The all in, counter this or die, styles coming to the forefront in CoH2 go against the nature of the game. Well, at least not without more feedback to opponents that this is happening.

>>Yet wont post own playercard.

Nuff said.

You are aware of your own ignorance, yet still continues to attack others based on it.

Who is the worse man?

I'm secure in my ability to play at an intermediate level. I'm also secure enough in my arguments to not need to unzip my e-pants every time I need prove a point, or dodge the argument at hand with attacks or fake platitudes.

This isn't Soviet Russia, I don't need to show you my papers.

This isn't Soviet Russia, I don't need to show you my papers.

And yet you attack me on mine, without showing your own.

Gj.

Only Soviet Industry and Elite troops commanders are OP. If both sides play any of the other commanders, it's pretty even.

\

And yet Soviets won 5 of 5 games in the most recent SNF... Soviets have significantly advantages over German this patch even outside of Soviet Industry. And T-70s have been over-performing for way too long now. They're very seriously due for a big smack down to where they should be.

And before anyone tries to say "But CieZ! They're both Soviet players" go look at OMGPOP's playercard. More 1v1s as Germans than Soviets and an extremely impressive 91.4% win rate with Germans in 1v1.

Spam grens, skip T2, get a stugIII, kill T-70. It costs a soviet player more fuel to get molotovs, T1 or 2, T3 and a T70 than it takes you to get a stugIII if you skip T2. Then, you are free to back-tech to T2 or just go for another tank. If you want your few minutes of fun with a flamer halftrack, then you should prepare for the soviet having a few minutes of fun with his T70. Seems fair enough.

+1

Seem fair;-)

+1

Seem fair;-)

I was wrong on the fuel counts! The maths are posted at the top of this page.

Soviets may have a slight early game advantage, but apart from OP commanders (elite troops industry, Soviet defense to a slightly lesser extent) the game is pretty balanced overall. It still has several design problems (too RNG focused, armor arrives too fast, rifles don't do enough damage, blizzards slow the game down, commander system sucks by defintion) but the balance team has been pretty diligent, moreso than in any other Relic title I'd say. Ostheer is most definitely not pathetic, and saying the faction you chose causes you to lose illustrates only one thing; you need to get better.

And I say this as a guy who playes both factions, too.

I nominate this for 'Worst Whine Thread of the Month'.

It's a pretty tough competition, though. So don't hold your breaths.

About gren spam


This strategy in the hands of good players is very hard to deal with. If you don't have ppsh you have to solely rely on a lucky molotov hit. A good german player is alert and will move away once you miss the grens will mostly win 1 squad vs 1 squad engagement.

in the original coh you could instead of throwing a grenade, close in with your riflemen and make use of their higher rate of fire. This mechanic is abscent in coh 2.

Add to this the lmg42 wich eats cons alive. The manpower drain delays your teching and while you finally build your tankiyov (or whatever it is called) you'll here the first pv4


gg..

About gren spam


This strategy in the hands of good players is very hard to deal with. If you don't have ppsh you have to solely rely on a lucky molotov hit. A good german player is alert and will move away once you miss the grens will mostly win 1 squad vs 1 squad engagement.

in the original coh you could instead of throwing a grenade, close in with your riflemen and make use of their higher rate of fire. This mechanic is abscent in coh 2.

Add to this the lmg42 wich eats cons alive. The manpower drain delays your teching and while you finally build your tankiyov (or whatever it is called) you'll here the first pv4


gg..

First of all, nearly every strategy is hard to deal with when executed by a good player.
Secondly, the more grens you field the harder it gets to dodge molotovs and even if the molly itself doesn't kill any grens, it still forces them out of cover giving them the common moving penalties thus giving the cons an advantage if you play well.

I did not like the vCoH mechanic because closing in is always easier than staying at distance, a disadvantage that could be compensated with mp44s or the proper use of mg42s. I don't think this mechanic would work in CoH 2.

The lmg42 is a beast you are correct. Remember it costs 60mun to equip, so in an equal game your opponent should not be able to field more than 2 lmg grens without having disadvantages elsewhere.