Anyone else find the regular Sherman useless?

Which is weird consider I rarely if ever go anything else than Mechanized but I find myself doing a bully and a pair of hell cats all the time. The base Sherman and the 76 one just misses to much to be worth it.

Sherman isn't really that bad, but there's also almost no reason to get one. That might not make sense but just feels like it's almost always better to go dozer/hellcats depending on what you need

Regular sherman lose to jaegershrek, regular panzer4 wins vs SSF zook.

They're not useless, they're not bad, they're not inefficient.

It just happen that USF specialist vehicles have actually justifiable performance to get them over generalist one.

Which should be the case for ALL 4 factions.

They're not useless, they're not bad, they're not inefficient.

It just happen that USF specialist vehicles have actually justifiable performance to get them over generalist one.

Which should be the case for ALL 4 factions.

Blessed take.

It is a solid all-rounder tank that incidentally has slightly better armour than the Pz IV but slightly less pen. Unlike in COH2, they are mainly going up against Pz III Ls and IVs so I don't understand why ppl are finding it 'useless'.

Because you don't build them only to fight Pz even if you decide to upgrade them. They are atrocious at vet0 to kill or even damage any infantry squads. On top of that there will be more Marders, atgun, pshreck on the field that Pz are the lesser of your problems on the field till +20 minutes ingame.

Let's say that late game medium tanks level of threat is so low that you better over invest into bulldozer that have direct impact on what they aim at and keep a couple of mines + an atgun in backup in case a Pz3 or Pz4 shows up.

It is a solid all-rounder tank that incidentally has slightly better armour than the Pz IV but slightly less pen. Unlike in COH2, they are mainly going up against Pz III Ls and IVs so I don't understand why ppl are finding it 'useless'.

Then read the thread, ppl explained it pretty clearly

Its not bad, it just doesnt have a role. You will never once feel like you need a sherman. You will consistently feel like you need hellcats and/or a dozer tho

Then read the thread, ppl explained it pretty clearly

Its not bad, it just doesnt have a role. You will never once feel like you need a sherman. You will consistently feel like you need hellcats and/or a dozer tho

It is my understanding that Relic have overbuffed the bulldozer, making it almost like a turreted COH2 Brummbar (with lower armour). With that as the ‘standard’ then of course ppl complain that the regular Sherman isn’t good enough. It isn’t wiping multiple models out per shot, or most of the squad HP.

One of my last games had a bulldozer shrug off sustained fire from 2 PaK 40s and knocked one of them out. It was only an inf squad recrewing and threatening a snare that I didn’t lose both my guns. And the match with it. Bunch up both AT guns into a shot and you're done.

I’ll leave the discussion of Hellcat vs Sherman to other people. It is tricky to balance the Hellcat and it flails around against any inf AT. But I do know that the Bulldozer/Hellcat combo is blatantly too powerful right now and needs a hefty nerf. Prob mainly to the bulldozer, lest we get too many screams of 'Hellcat on life support' again (not without some justification admittedly).

Partly I think it has to do with meta over actual unit performance. For Wher Luftwaffle (Shrek Jaegers) and DAK buffed Panzerjaegers being fairly omnipresent it's a lot safer to go Bulldozer. Furthermore, in 1v1 at least, T4 for both axis factions seems to be an afterthought for a lot of players and if a heavier vehicle comes out it's usually a Brumm/Panther/Tiger when you'll want a Hellcat. Until you see more P3/P4 usage and less handheld AT swarms Sherman won't be the optimal pick in most cases

It is my understanding that Relic have overbuffed the bulldozer, making it almost like a turreted COH2 Brummbar (with lower armour). With that as the ‘standard’ then of course ppl complain that the regular Sherman isn’t good enough. It isn’t wiping multiple models out per shot, or most of the squad HP.

One of my last games had a bulldozer shrug off sustained fire from 2 PaK 40s and knocked one of them out. It was only an inf squad recrewing and threatening a snare that I didn’t lose both my guns. And the match with it. Bunch up both AT guns into a shot and you're done.

I’ll leave the discussion of Hellcat vs Sherman to other people. It is tricky to balance the Hellcat and it flails around against any inf AT. But I do know that the Bulldozer/Hellcat combo is blatantly too powerful right now and needs a hefty nerf. Prob mainly to the bulldozer, lest we get too many screams of 'Hellcat on life support' again (not without some justification admittedly).

Agreed with pretty much all of that. Hellcats in groups can be disgusting, but if ya only have 1 or 2 they can have a hard time making an impact. Unless the dozer is covering up their weakness like you said

I too would blame the dozer more than hellcats for the shermans absence. Shreck jaegers as others have mentioned also make the normal sherman hard to choose over the dozer

You need the armor upgrade to get the sherman valuable vs panzershrek, so you better callin a bulldozer anyway since they also get the upgrade. It's also part of USF design decision locking you out of upgrades with selecting you support center.
The MSC armor upgrade reduce the pshrek damage from 160 to 120.

Now if people are already saying the Pz4 isn't great and prefers pshreck blob, then how can they be surprised that the sherman which has lower infantry fighting power is not used.

Checking the value, the sherman has worst scatter value (1.5) and its damage model set at 3 while the Pz4 has 1.32 scatter value and its damage model set at 4.

As for the comparison between the Brumbar and the 105mm, just know that the Brumbar barrel is sorted as explosive weapon and does 160 damage per shot while the 105mm is classified as ballistic weapon with 120 damage per shot. What get the sherman 105 over the brumbar is the turret and range, 35 vs 30 for the brumbar. The rest of it Brumbar advantage.

Not saying there is a balance issue here but that you can't complain about sherman not used and 105 over used in the current situation.

So basically we are all more or less agreement that the Sherman isn't good basically. There is a lot of "what-about-ism" post, however it seems I'm not the only one looking at this 360mp 90 fuel unit and wondering why exactly is performing like that.

as a tank that has guns that fire at enemies, it certainly has a niche it excels in

The problem with USF design is those support centers that kill the faction.

the Sherman is basically an average tank, it was ok for months till Relic decided to powercreep other faction's tank and late game units in general. But now the issue with the sherman is that if Relic powercreep it, it will make MSC / sherman76 even more powerfull and also making the Ez8 lacking identity.

So today we end up with a tank that has been left behind with powercreep, being bad by today's standard but still very good if you decide to go MSC.

And looking at last patch and Relic logic with the hellcat, don't expect any intelligent change about the Sherman in the futur, they nerfed the hellcat while adding another round of powercreep for WM and DAK late game units to the point where you can't reasonably fight a panther or a tiger with a hellcat.

The problem that the Sherman has is that it takes two of them to equal the AI of the Dozer, and then you lose the ability to dive against wounded tanks because you don't have a Hellcat. Also, the performance is not good unless you go Armored and get the upgrades. If you go Armored, get the upgrades and can survive for about 40 minutes then the Shermans get good, but that is a lof of if's.

The problem that the Sherman has is that it takes two of them to equal the AI of the Dozer, and then you lose the ability to dive against wounded tanks because you don't have a Hellcat. Also, the performance is not good unless you go Armored and get the upgrades. If you go Armored, get the upgrades and can survive for about 40 minutes then the Shermans get good, but that is a lof of if's.

So basically you need a bunch of upgrades to make it decent

So basically you need a bunch of upgrades to make it decent

You pretty much need all of them, and a group of at least two. Two of them can push around shrek blobs when they have the 76 upgrade, but they still need smoke because the armor isn't that great even with improvised armor.

The sherman should have way better anti inf. It has 3 mgs...

The sherman should have way better anti inf. It has 3 mgs...

MGs in coh were always more of a decoration.
Especially in CoH1 when they did absolutely nothing.