Yeah the British Bofors truck is positively lethargic when it comes to shooting down planes.
So in team games you need a USF for their AA but then have to offset their poor presence that Riflemen provide compared to other mainline infantry.
Balance thoughts?
5 Mar 2023, 09:58 AM
#121
Posts: 1096
5 Mar 2023, 10:03 AM
#122
Posts: 1096
double post
5 Mar 2023, 10:26 AM
#123
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
So in team games you need a USF for their AA but then have to offset their poor presence that Riflemen provide compared to other mainline infantry.
They look poor, only because infantry sections are overpowered AF. Grenadiers perform worst then rifles and cost more, PGs cost ridiculous 300 MP and cant even 1v1 rifles\tommies most of the time, before you pump 300MP worth of upgrades and 100 muni LMG.
If DAK wasn't abusing bersaliery\guastatori and wehr wasn't going luft 99% of the time, rifles would be fine.
5 Mar 2023, 11:01 AM
#124
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
They look poor, only because infantry sections are overpowered AF. Grenadiers perform worst then rifles and cost more, PGs cost ridiculous 300 MP and cant even 1v1 rifles\tommies most of the time, before you pump 300MP worth of upgrades and 100 muni LMG.
If DAK wasn't abusing bersaliery\guastatori and wehr wasn't going luft 99% of the time, rifles would be fine.
Gustatori have 40mp reinforce cost, US sniper obliterates DAK manpower and DAK already has massive MP shortages as all their upgrades are very MP expensive, mainline costs 300 or 320 and does not live up to its cost.
Against DAK, Rifles are perfectly fine and perform accordingly to their cost, its when LVs show up when US starts to struggle if no AT is present.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Mar 2023, 11:24 AM
#125
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Gustatori have 40mp reinforce cost, US sniper obliterates DAK manpower and DAK already has massive MP shortages as all their upgrades are very MP expensive, mainline costs 300 or 320 and does not live up to its cost.
Against DAK, Rifles are perfectly fine and perform accordingly to their cost, its when LVs show up when US starts to struggle if no AT is present.
Well Guastatori reinforcement cost is justified, since they can pretty much 1v2 even without flamers, as for DAK PGs they just blows, I myself just gave up on them, better to just spend additional 20MP and use Bersaliery, since at least they have normal long range damage, free upgrades and can use their utility sprint.
Sniper spam is a problem for both US\Wehr, every time I face try hards either US ones of Wehr ones, the all go for double sniper, tho requires a teammate with a braincells.
As for AT, US meta is mech support center, since 76mm sherman is basically a mini tiger but also it allows you to just get yourself muni free M5 with a howi at 5 min mark to fight pretty much any LV. So if US is stuggling against LVs, its not a faction but a player problem.
Point here, if there is balance patch, then it should address all cheesing at the same time, because basically right now cheese is countering other cheese.
5 Mar 2023, 11:35 AM
#126
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
On 1vs1 I like to mix PG and bersaliegi cuz the last don't have atnade and can be bullied hard with a LV and I find them together synergy well.
Bersaliegi AND Pz have free upgrade through the italian combined arm doctrine. Then you can get their regular upgrade for the usual price.
The way I see the game I feel you need to know when to retreat early to not waste manpower with DAK, the Brit Boys meta is problematic because you end up not building LVs in the majority of your games so you don't really know how to use them.
Bersaliegi AND Pz have free upgrade through the italian combined arm doctrine. Then you can get their regular upgrade for the usual price.
The way I see the game I feel you need to know when to retreat early to not waste manpower with DAK, the Brit Boys meta is problematic because you end up not building LVs in the majority of your games so you don't really know how to use them.
5 Mar 2023, 12:01 PM
#127
Posts: 1220
I dont get it why usf again dont have any non doc Arty options. At least relic could buff M3/75 range or usf will be dead in teamgames.
5 Mar 2023, 12:20 PM
#128
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I dont get it why usf again dont have any non doc Arty options. At least relic could buff M3/75 range or usf will be dead in teamgames.
Pretty sure air support center is your USF arty option.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Mar 2023, 13:07 PM
#129
Posts: 309 | Subs: 1
I dont get it why usf again dont have any non doc Arty options. At least relic could buff M3/75 range or usf will be dead in teamgames.
USF late game is pretty pathetic. You lack arty (and doctrinal arty is bad anyways - Scotts and Whizzbangs are not really worth their money) and solutions to bust Tigers/Panthers. While the Shermans are pretty good, they a) force you to go mechanized upgrade and b) they are one-trick ponys that won't work on narrow maps against Tiger and co, when flanking becomes impossible.
Have you ever woken up in the middle of the night, totally shaken and lost, because in your dream you were hearing Katyushas firing?
5 Mar 2023, 13:15 PM
#130
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
USF late game is pretty pathetic. You lack arty (and doctrinal arty is bad anyways - Scotts and Whizzbangs are not really worth their money) and solutions to bust Tigers/Panthers. While the Shermans are pretty good, they a) force you to go mechanized upgrade and b) they are one-trick ponys that won't work on narrow maps against Tiger and co, when flanking becomes impossible.
In regards to panther/tiger..... you've heard of hellcat?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Mar 2023, 13:53 PM
#131
Posts: 1378
In regards to panther/tiger..... you've heard of hellcat?
Hellcat is a bit of a tough sell. I don't think that I've been giving it enough credit, but also I do think that it's overshadowed by the sherman 76.
I must have had some personal bias going on on my first attempt using the hellcat, it seemingly did 80 damage or something. On actual testing with me looking at the actual health removed, I saw it was a much more reasonable amount.
So, the Hellcat does 160 damage on pen, and it seems to have pen good enough to consistently penetrate the tiger frontally.
I also was sleeping on the "First Strike" ability, which actually
The only issue is that they've got trash frontal armor and they have 120hp less. If the tiger shoots an m16 twice, it's only got 120hp left. That's the amount of damage a single panzer 4 will do if it pens you, which it will because the Hellcat's armor is trash. So, it's a very tough unit to use compared to the pretty straightforward Tiger, especially because the Hellcat and Tiger share the same max range.
Hellcat better than I thought, but still it'll struggle against a frontal slugfest with a Tiger. If the Hellcat can't get off a First Strike, then it's going to take 8 shots to kill the Tiger.
*Wrong math. Thanks Vipper.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
5 Mar 2023, 14:04 PM
#132
Posts: 1378
If you're holding fire on your Hellcat, you can just drive a short distance out of combat, wait 5 seconds, then drive up, pick a target, and recieve the First Strike bonus over and over.
This changes everything.
And on top of that, the Hellcat gets HVAP rounds from mechanized support center. Those do 200 damage on pen.
EDIT: Wait, nvm. I'm getting ahead of myself... First Strike seems very finicky.
EDIT 2: Yeah, First Strike is very difficult to tell when you're going to get it.
HOWEVER, it actually STACKS with HVAP.
HVAP + First Strike does 300 damage! Expensive (45 muni per Hellcat), but that would bring a Tiger down to half health if you had 2 Hellcats.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
5 Mar 2023, 16:53 PM
#133
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
So, the Hellcat does 160 damage on pen, and it seems to have pen good enough to consistently penetrate the tiger frontally.
I also was sleeping on the "First Strike" ability, which actually DOUBLES the Hellcat's damage to 240. ..
math do not add up 2X160=320
5 Mar 2023, 17:04 PM
#134
Posts: 293
Point here, if there is balance patch, then it should address all cheesing at the same time, because basically right now cheese is countering other cheese.
Correct, pretty much every faction has something that's broken as fuck at the moment. Been playing mostly DAK and i know their whole thing is supposed to be hard hitting combined arms strats, but their infantry, outside of the hilariously broken Guastatori and other call-ins, feels a bit overpriced and weak.
It also feels odd that they don't really have a dedicated end-game tank destroyer, outside of the flak emplacement, which is a bugger to move around when i'm panicking.
5 Mar 2023, 17:27 PM
#135
Posts: 1378
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
5 Mar 2023, 19:17 PM
#136
Posts: 1158
guastatori are the main thing giving me trouble. They solo more than 1v2. I don't know why, but anytime I face someone using them I never win the engagements unless I use a tank or arty. I can send commandos with 2 bois and all of them will lose. IDK.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
6 Mar 2023, 01:40 AM
#137
Posts: 309 | Subs: 1
In regards to panther/tiger..... you've heard of hellcat?
I don't know if that's the answer. The range is very limited and it bounces off of P4's regularly. Maybe the first strike works, but that's a deterrent at best.
Have you ever woken up in the middle of the night, totally shaken and lost, because in your dream you were hearing Katyushas firing?
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