Thoughts on the M-42?
19 Oct 2022, 00:04 AM
#21
Posts: 772
waste of MP. Probably the worst dedicated AT unit in the game.
19 Oct 2022, 12:00 PM
#22
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I can guarantee to you, right now, that no matter how hard you try, you wont reach more than maybe ONE vet 3 M-42 in 10 or so games
If M-42 has trouble veting up than there hardly any reason for buffing the vet 3 bonuses.
And there are other modes than 4vs4.
these can fire constantly and you'll only reach vet 2 semi consistently, and one of the almost GUARANTEED stukas, LEFHs, or panzerwerfers will nuke it once it DOES get vet
Guess some people can't miss the opportunity to rant about how much greener the grass is on the other side. Even so if it is an issue that is not a M-42 issue but it applies to most ATG/Support weapons both allies and Axis.
The issues with HE mode is that it simply should not be there since an ATG should not be able autofire HE rounds.
19 Oct 2022, 14:02 PM
#23
Posts: 1391
...If M-42 has trouble vetting up then [what is the point of] buffing the vet 3 bonuses...
Yeah. If the M-42 has any chance of reaching vet 3, it's in 1v1s or 2s. So this hypothetical alteration to vet doesn't even help it where it would actually need it.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
19 Oct 2022, 17:17 PM
#24
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
While not good I think the M-42 is kind of underrated - it's definitely a synergy unit and not one that will make an impact by itself. It's penetration with Camo Bonus and Vet isn't terrible and the ROF means that you can at least punish people if they aren't paying attention to their mediums by either doing enough damage to snare or if they expose rear armor do damage consistently. Plus the Vehicle Tracking can let you get cheeky shots with SU-85 or Zis. I find it best to just park them somewhere in Camo after the early game and use it as support AT.
I don't even bother with Canister rounds after they were neutered. I don't find it super useful against LVs since the low damage means you can almost never get a kill unless the other player messes up - it's more of a "oh crap I'm getting killed by LV pressure and need an emergency call-in" unit. Otherwise just stalling for a ZIS or Guards is probably better more often than not.
I don't even bother with Canister rounds after they were neutered. I don't find it super useful against LVs since the low damage means you can almost never get a kill unless the other player messes up - it's more of a "oh crap I'm getting killed by LV pressure and need an emergency call-in" unit. Otherwise just stalling for a ZIS or Guards is probably better more often than not.
20 Oct 2022, 10:32 AM
#25
Posts: 772
Yeah. If the M-42 has any chance of reaching vet 3, it's in 1v1s or 2s. So this hypothetical alteration to vet doesn't even help it where it would actually need it.
it is a pure 1v1 unit with a lot of tradeoffs + the Zis is still amazing. There is almost no reason to build this in 2s even if you start with t1. Just build T2 to get one of the best AT units in the game.
20 Oct 2022, 18:41 PM
#26
Posts: 1391
waste of MP. Probably the worst dedicated AT unit in the game.
it is a pure 1v1 unit with a lot of tradeoffs
duality of man
but fair enough
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
20 Oct 2022, 19:26 PM
#27
Posts: 787 | Subs: 1
duality of man
but fair enough
the tradeoffs: you can put it in a bush, your enemies will waste popcap if they capture it, it reveals tanks if it penetrates them every Christmas or so
the coh2.org forum experience:
21 Oct 2022, 00:11 AM
#28
Posts: 772
duality of man
but fair enough
Well if you disagree you could name any AT unit that is more useless then this.
Extremely limited timing, low kill potential and zis gun still exist are several reasons why it is not good.
Even in 1s this unit is probably viable in the hands of few extremely skilled players.
This unit does not worth neither spent MP nor invested micro, and micro, imo, is very under appeciated resource that people tend to believe is unlimited, since it is not shown on the screen.p
21 Oct 2022, 00:59 AM
#29
Posts: 1391
Well if you disagree...
Certainly not. I was just trying to be humorous.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
21 Oct 2022, 14:45 PM
#30
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Possible changes could include some of the following:
Lower CP so the unit can be used earlier especially in large modes
Remove HE firing mode (which is a bad design) if there is a need for it replace it with a single ability shot
Decrease pop by 1
Increase damage to 100
Increase accuracy
Lower CP so the unit can be used earlier especially in large modes
Remove HE firing mode (which is a bad design) if there is a need for it replace it with a single ability shot
Decrease pop by 1
Increase damage to 100
Increase accuracy
21 Oct 2022, 18:46 PM
#31
Posts: 603
Possible changes could include some of the following:
Lower CP so the unit can be used earlier especially in large modes
Remove HE firing mode (which is a bad design) if there is a need for it replace it with a single ability shot
Decrease pop by 1
Increase damage to 100
Increase accuracy
Damage to 100 might actually be the ticket. Would make getting 2 worth it despite the cost.
21 Oct 2022, 23:08 PM
#32
Posts: 1391
Remove HE firing mode (which is a bad design) if there is a need for it replace it with a single ability shot
If this were to be the case, then it would need to be buffed because a single HE shot is not worth a single damn as it is now. Too inaccurate and too weak to be worth any amount of munitions. Maybe if it was free (obviously with some kind of 30 second cooldown or something). Timed ability costing munitions makes more sense to me.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
22 Oct 2022, 05:59 AM
#33
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
If this were to be the case, then it would need to be buffed because a single HE shot is not worth a single damn as it is now. Too inaccurate and too weak to be worth any amount of munitions. Maybe if it was free (obviously with some kind of 30 second cooldown or something). Timed ability costing munitions makes more sense to me.
If it a single shot it can have range up to 60.
Point here is that a firing mode with HE is a bad design and that is why it was nerfed to 35 range.
22 Oct 2022, 06:49 AM
#34
Posts: 1289
I would like to see it as a timed ability. Then with 50 range if its to strong. Other abilities like zis b and bbb are concidered fine with 60 range. They simaler to a timed ability.
22 Oct 2022, 09:14 AM
#35
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
There are differences between barrages and autofire.
Even if timed, autofire HE with 50-60 range can the cause issues that existed before. Main difference would be an mu cost.
Even if timed, autofire HE with 50-60 range can the cause issues that existed before. Main difference would be an mu cost.
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