Soviet partisan doctrine

i have not seen this doctrine around at all in the last ~60 days

why is basically nobody using it? did the partisan rework really kill it

i have not seen this doctrine around at all in the last ~60 days

why is basically nobody using it? did the partisan rework really kill it

I think it has more to do with better options being available. For me, the two strongest abilities are radio intercept and mark target. For Radio Intercept, there are other commanders that all seem to be better top to bottom. Advance warfare gives you T3485 along with PPSH and loiter, infantry repair is ok but your army is mostly cons anyways so it has use. Armored Assault gets you T3485/IS2/Repairs/Loiter which is all useful but lategame focused while NKVD gets you AT Overwatch/Commissar/Scorched Earth. In 1v1, NKVD is quite powerful as the commissar synergizes well with T1 start and AT overwatch is godly.

Looking at Mark Target, the other two commanders that get it have Guards which synergize well along with a tank upgrade. Guard Motor top to bottom is better in everyway while Mechanized Support can be difficult to counter in team games.

Looking at the rest of the commander, the abilities seem to be lacking. Partisans feel like slightly better cons to start but quickly fall off as their VET is fairly bad. IF you want an infiltration squad, Airborne Guards are in two significantly better commanders. Airborne get PPSH for free while also having 6th man/significantly better VET and only have to wait one more command point. SPY Network is nice but got nerfed to only help the USER not the team so anything with some type of recon is better for the team in team games. Finally, Anti-Tank Gun ambush is extremely meh for a command point in such a weak commander. Maybe if it had been swapped out for Tank-Hunter Ambush it could have lead some strong synergy with the other abilities.

I have never seen someone using it in 2 years.

I think it has more to do with better options being available. For me, the two strongest abilities are radio intercept and mark target. For Radio Intercept, there are other commanders that all seem to be better top to bottom. Advance warfare gives you T3485 along with PPSH and loiter, infantry repair is ok but your army is mostly cons anyways so it has use. Armored Assault gets you T3485/IS2/Repairs/Loiter which is all useful but lategame focused while NKVD gets you AT Overwatch/Commissar/Scorched Earth. In 1v1, NKVD is quite powerful as the commissar synergizes well with T1 start and AT overwatch is godly.

Looking at Mark Target, the other two commanders that get it have Guards which synergize well along with a tank upgrade. Guard Motor top to bottom is better in everyway while Mechanized Support can be difficult to counter in team games.

Looking at the rest of the commander, the abilities seem to be lacking. Partisans feel like slightly better cons to start but quickly fall off as their VET is fairly bad. IF you want an infiltration squad, Airborne Guards are in two significantly better commanders. Airborne get PPSH for free while also having 6th man/significantly better VET and only have to wait one more command point. SPY Network is nice but got nerfed to only help the USER not the team so anything with some type of recon is better for the team in team games. Finally, Anti-Tank Gun ambush is extremely meh for a command point in such a weak commander. Maybe if it had been swapped out for Tank-Hunter Ambush it could have lead some strong synergy with the other abilities.

nobody used partisan doctrine because other conventional doctrines were always superior for conventional play. you picked this doctrine to commit an early cheese (and to apply strong pressure at just 1 cp)

you could catch wehrmacht support weapon spammers off guard. But now you cant just shit out ppsh squads to flank at early intervals anymore



I think that they basically killed the doctrine when they """reworked""" the partisans (nerfing them) by removing their shock factor and cheesiness, even if they were very subpar units to begin with

nobody used partisan doctrine because other conventional doctrines were always superior for conventional play. you picked this doctrine to commit an early cheese (and to apply strong pressure at just 1 cp)

you could catch wehrmacht support weapon spammers off guard. But now you cant just shit out ppsh squads to flank at early intervals anymore



I think that they basically killed the doctrine when they """reworked""" the partisans (nerfing them) by removing their shock factor and cheesiness, even if they were very subpar units to begin with

That’s what I am taking about, the rework was done to adjust all infiltration units but Paritisans were hit the hardest since they no longer come with stock PPSH and scale horrendously . So you have to use it a more conventional strat which causes the commander to fall flat on its face. They could have given the commander Booby Trap, Scorched earth or something else to try and make more use of Partisan infiltration

That’s what I am taking about, the rework was done to adjust all infiltration units but Paritisans were hit the hardest since they no longer come with stock PPSH and scale horrendously . So you have to use it a more conventional strat which causes the commander to fall flat on its face. They could have given the commander Booby Trap, Scorched earth or something else to try and make more use of Partisan infiltration

That is simply wrong.

Partisan are a dirty cheap unit that gets good vet bonuses and good utility.

The commander on the other hand has:
no premium medium
no Super heavy
no Artillery piece
no strong off map

and in sort there are more useful commanders out there for multiplier

I sometimes play it for fun. Partisans could have used a reinforcement cost buff to maybe 23-24.

But it does help Soviets much. Almost all comanders rely on elite infantry or the T34/85. Partisans are cheap, but also micro intensive. The rest of the abilities are okay to good, but they don't offset the initial problem.

That is simply wrong.

Partisan are a dirty cheap unit that gets good vet bonuses and good utility.

The commander on the other hand has:
no premium medium
no Super heavy
no Artillery piece
no strong off map

and in sort there are more useful commanders out there for multiplier

yeah except they're fragile like glass and their reinforce is 26 (and cant be merged)



you don't even get the first strike bonus until vet 2 (as opposed to basically every single other ambush oriented squad in the game), and now you basically don't have a squad unless you spend 45 muni to upgrade it

yeah except they're fragile like glass and their reinforce is 26 (and cant be merged)

There target size is fine for cost since they cost 210 manpower to produce.

Their reinforcement cost is also inline with their cost of 210 (210/8=26.25)

And given that the get camo they should be used in ambush and not in an open fight.

you don't even get the first strike bonus until vet 2 (as opposed to basically every single other ambush oriented squad in the game), and now you basically don't have a squad unless you spend 45 muni to upgrade it

Actually very few squad get ambush bonus.

Their upgrade cost of 45 for 4 PPsh and an extra model is also cheap and so is their shreck upgrade.

The unit is a cost efficient unit it simply can not and should not be able to carry a whole commander on its own.

That is simply wrong.

Partisan are a dirty cheap unit that gets good vet bonuses and good utility.

The commander on the other hand has:
no premium medium
no Super heavy
no Artillery piece
no strong off map

and in sort there are more useful commanders out there for multiplier

Can you explain how I am wrong?

They start with Kar98k, 4 man with option of either PPSH or Shrek.

Base version has the worst final Soviet RA an no utility.
PPSH gets 5man buts still had the worst durability/survivability of all Soviet SMG squads while only having a frag nade as a postive over either PPSH cons/penals. They have less utility compared to Cons and significantly worse squad damage compared to Penals. Only at VET3 along with camo bonus will they hope to deal Vetted PPSH Penal damage.
Their increased molotov range at vet3 is worse compared to cons throwing speed vet, the animation takes so long that the range buff isn't as helpful.
Penals are a better inf based AT squad as they can bully every LV without fear of RNG causing a miss. This leads to better synergy with scout car as PTRS inside of scout car can chase down any LV and even give tanks a scare. AT Partisans will miss and they only get 1 at weapon while also to my knowledge losing the 20 Reload Vet they got under TANK Hunter Partisans.

Can you explain how I am wrong?

They start with Kar98k, 4 man with option of either PPSH or Shrek.

Base version has the worst final Soviet RA an no utility.

Conscript have start with received accuracy of 1.09 which is the worse for Soviet units
CE, Penal, Partisan all start with received accuracy of 1.

Partisan are meant to choose their fights and thus come with camo.

PPSH gets 5man buts still had the worst durability/survivability of all Soviet SMG squads while only having a frag nade as a postive over either PPSH cons/penals.

While being far cheaper, available earlier and having cloack.

They have less utility compared to Cons and significantly worse squad damage compared to Penals. Only at VET3 along with camo bonus will they hope to deal Vetted PPSH Penal damage.

Their utility includes:
They are excellent scouts with extra vision and cloak
They are dirty cheap and ideal for ambush with cloak/mines/grenades/and concussion traps
They can become Ambush AT units with tank detection/mine/snare and shreck
Two grenades both DOT and HE
They can heal other units or themselves
They can lay wire

Their increased molotov range at vet3 is worse compared to cons throwing speed vet, the animation takes so long that the range buff isn't as helpful.

Penals are a better inf based AT squad as they can bully every LV without fear of RNG causing a miss. This leads to better synergy with scout car as PTRS inside of scout car can chase down any LV and even give tanks a scare. AT Partisans will miss and they only get 1 at weapon while also to my knowledge losing the 20 Reload Vet they got under TANK Hunter Partisans.

Ambush bonus applies to Shreck also so they do not really miss the much once at vet2.

Tank hunter partisan did not get reload bonus they used to get 10% penetration bonus.

In sort the unit is cost efficient and remains useful though out the game either as an AT unit or a scout/ (ambush unit) and simply do not "scale horrendously". As I pointed the unit simply can not carry the commander.

Conscript have start with received accuracy of 1.09 which is the worse for Soviet units
CE, Penal, Partisan all start with received accuracy of 1.



While being far cheaper, available earlier and having cloack.


Their utility includes:
They are excellent scouts with extra vision and cloak
They are dirty cheap and ideal for ambush with cloak/mines/grenades/and concussion traps
They can become Ambush AT units with tank detection/mine/snare and shreck
Two grenades both DOT and HE
They can heal other units or themselves
They can lay wire

Their increased molotov range at vet3 is worse compared to cons throwing speed vet, the animation takes so long that the range buff isn't as helpful.


Ambush bonus applies to Shreck also so they do not really miss the much once at vet2.

Tank hunter partisan did not get reload bonus they used to get 10% penetration bonus.

In sort the unit is cost efficient and remains useful though out the game either as an AT unit or a scout/ (ambush unit) and simply do not "scale horrendously". As I pointed the unit simply can not carry the commander.

partisans are fun to use, but you're talking as if they are obersoldaten level of good lol


also no lol partisans are not cheap, they are 210 mp but very easily killable and completely horrid without the upgrades

I'd say that you pay less for them but end up with an inefficient (albeit fun) squad

partisans are fun to use, but you're talking as if they are obersoldaten level of good lol


also no lol partisans are not cheap, they are 210 mp but very easily killable and completely horrid without the upgrades

I'd say that you pay less for them but end up with an inefficient (albeit fun) squad

I have not said anything that even come close to calling them obersoldaten and if in your opinion obersoldaten are OP I suggest you start a thread about it.

Conscript have start with received accuracy of 1.09 which is the worse for Soviet units
CE, Penal, Partisan all start with received accuracy of 1.



While being far cheaper, available earlier and having cloack.


Their utility includes:
They are excellent scouts with extra vision and cloak
They are dirty cheap and ideal for ambush with cloak/mines/grenades/and concussion traps
They can become Ambush AT units with tank detection/mine/snare and shreck
Two grenades both DOT and HE
They can heal other units or themselves
They can lay wire

Their increased molotov range at vet3 is worse compared to cons throwing speed vet, the animation takes so long that the range buff isn't as helpful.


Ambush bonus applies to Shreck also so they do not really miss the much once at vet2.

Tank hunter partisan did not get reload bonus they used to get 10% penetration bonus.

In sort the unit is cost efficient and remains useful though out the game either as an AT unit or a scout/ (ambush unit) and simply do not "scale horrendously". As I pointed the unit simply can not carry the commander.

I said they scaled bad and had bad final RA which means vetted RA. Cons with VET are .71, Penals are .77, CE are .77 and finally Partisans at .83. These 3 units are available before Partisans so they have already started vetting. To pull off a few of the things you mentioned requires a significant micro payoff to work while having a high chance of squad loss due to bad RA and small squad size. Also 10% penetration was Vet2 for Tank Hunters, at Vet3 they got a 20% reload bonus along with another 23% to RA according to the Vet Guide.

A lot of what they bring Soviets don't really need as T1 can get sniper plus flare for vision and T2 can get mortar flare. You can go Tank Hunter doctrine and get a better AT cloak unit and like you,Katukov and I said the other commanders are just straight up better due to reasons you and I have stated.

I find the commander really only needs small tweaks as it could potentially synergize nicely with T1 start. Switching out Anti-tank ambush for Tank Hunter Ambush along with changing the AT upgrade to Triple PTRS would go a long way to making it more useful.

Radio Intercept - Naturally lends itself to T1 start and helps keep the player aware of any possible counters to sniper/scout car.

Tank Hunter Ambush - This would buff the commander a bit since it doesn't get any premium tank, fits in with the quick hard alpha strike of the commander.

AT switch to PTRS- Shreks/Zooks are horrible inside vehicles so doesn't really help to much so they force a more static play form Partisans. Using PTRS would allow Penals to remain AI focused while the cheap unit gets placed in car for LV hunting

Spy Network/Mark Target - This is where the PTRS will really shine. In team games or 1v1, Spy network could be used to locate weak high value target like damaged tank or rocket arty. A PTRS Squad could spawn closely, upgrade and once spotted with vision Mark Target along with initial volley could take out unit in one or two salvos. At max range Vet0-2 I would expect the PTRS to perform better out of camo and similar attacking from camo. The Shrek wouldn't have the same reliability until VET3.

I said they scaled bad and had bad final RA which means vetted RA. Cons with VET are .71, Penals are .77, CE are .77 and finally Partisans at .83. These 3 units are available before Partisans so they have already started vetting. To pull off a few of the things you mentioned requires a significant micro payoff to work while having a high chance of squad loss due to bad RA and small squad size. Also 10% penetration was Vet2 for Tank Hunters, at Vet3 they got a 20% reload bonus along with another 23% to RA according to the Vet Guide.

And as I have pointed out Partisan relay on their camo not to take damage. You simply can not expect a cheap unit to as be as durable as more expensive units.

And they come with more utility than that.

The first strike bonus at vet 2 is better than a reload bonus at vet 3

(I am not sure if the vet bonuses the guide has are the new ones or the old ones. I might check the editor later but it is not updated either)

A lot of what they bring Soviets don't really need as T1 can get sniper plus flare for vision and T2 can get mortar flare. You can go Tank Hunter doctrine and get a better AT cloak unit and like you,Katukov and I said the other commanders are just straight up better due to reasons you and I have stated.

Flare cost munition and have limited time being able to move while cloaked and having superior sight make partisan one of the most cost efficient scout unit in the game in cost/upkeep/pop

I find the commander really only needs small tweaks as it could potentially synergize nicely with T1 start. Switching out Anti-tank ambush for Tank Hunter Ambush along with changing the AT upgrade to Triple PTRS would go a long way to making it more useful.

Radio Intercept - Naturally lends itself to T1 start and helps keep the player aware of any possible counters to sniper/scout car.

Tank Hunter Ambush - This would buff the commander a bit since it doesn't get any premium tank, fits in with the quick hard alpha strike of the commander.

AT switch to PTRS- Shreks/Zooks are horrible inside vehicles so doesn't really help to much so they force a more static play form Partisans. Using PTRS would allow Penals to remain AI focused while the cheap unit gets placed in car for LV hunting

Spy Network/Mark Target - This is where the PTRS will really shine. In team games or 1v1, Spy network could be used to locate weak high value target like damaged tank or rocket arty. A PTRS Squad could spawn closely, upgrade and once spotted with vision Mark Target along with initial volley could take out unit in one or two salvos. At max range Vet0-2 I would expect the PTRS to perform better out of camo and similar attacking from camo. The Shrek wouldn't have the same reliability until VET3.

Yes AT partisan are meant to be used in ambush and are worse in vehicles.

Actually AT partisan used to get 3 PTRS or shrecks and people simply did not like the PTRS so it was removed.

I am not sure how many people you will find that would prefer 3 PTRS over shrecks for Partisan.

And if one want to go t1 one can simply get PRTS on Penals.

And my point is that commander is "average" not because Partisan are thrash.

Ambush bonus applies to Shreck also so they do not really miss the much once at vet2.

Tank hunter partisan did not get reload bonus they used to get 10% penetration bonus.

In sort the unit is cost efficient and remains useful though out the game either as an AT unit or a scout/ (ambush unit) and simply do not "scale horrendously". As I pointed the unit simply can not carry the commander.

Lets take a step back because both units got the first strike bonus at VET2. Overall, AT partisans are worse then they used to be.

Unlocks the "Concussive Trap" ability.

+10% penetration.
+30% accuracy.
-16.66% received accuracy.
+50% accuracy when firing from camouflage.

+10% accuracy.
+20% reload speed.
-23% received accuracy.

So they don't need to rely on camo to avoid damage, it didn't matter if first strike was better as it got both acc and damage. Also I don't understand how the bonus ACC is better than faster reload. The partisans should be able to shoot from around mid range distance so I wouldn't expect them to miss the first shot. It is the 2nd shot that matters late game as shreks take quite a bit longer to reload so the 5 sec acc bonus is useless whereas the bonus reload could be the difference between the vehicle getting away or not, especially if the unit is vetted.

I get what you're saying about player preference, its just an idea. Do you remember if it was 2 or 3 PTRS? As my idea is to avoid using the Penals as the AT unit with a cheap alternative. Thus allowing more synergy with T1. I think if players got a chance to try out a triple PTRS cheap camo unit they would like it as I believe the old Partisans had the old PTRS before they got major buffs.

Lets take a step back because both units got the first strike bonus at VET2. Overall, AT partisans are worse then they used to be.

Unlocks the "Concussive Trap" ability.

+10% penetration.
+30% accuracy.
-16.66% received accuracy.
+50% accuracy when firing from camouflage.

+10% accuracy.
+20% reload speed.
-23% received accuracy.

This are probably the original bonuses of Partisan:
Partisan Tank Hunters
Unlocks the 'Trip Wire Flares' ability
+10% penetration, +30% accuracy, -16.66% received accuracy
+10% accuracy, -25% weapon cooldown, -23% received accuracy

And they did not used get first strike bonus.

And AT partisan used to cost 340 manpower with inferior rifles (if I remember correctly) so I can not really agree that they are currently worse. The only advantage they used to have was that AT grenade was not in cooldown but that would be gone anyway.

So they don't need to rely on camo to avoid damage, it didn't matter if first strike was better as it got both acc and damage. Also I don't understand how the bonus ACC is better than faster reload. The partisans should be able to shoot from around mid range distance so I wouldn't expect them to miss the first shot. It is the 2nd shot that matters late game as shreks take quite a bit longer to reload so the 5 sec acc bonus is useless whereas the bonus reload could be the difference between the vehicle getting away or not, especially if the unit is vetted.

First strike bonus gives the accuracy (not sure if it comes with other bonuses) and hit with first shot is more important the reloading faster.

I get what you're saying about player preference, its just an idea. Do you remember if it was 2 or 3 PTRS? As my idea is to avoid using the Penals as the AT unit with a cheap alternative. Thus allowing more synergy with T1. I think if players got a chance to try out a triple PTRS cheap camo unit they would like it as I believe the old Partisans had the old PTRS before they got major buffs.

They used to get 3 PTRS

Personally I think the biggest problem with Partisans is the reinforce cost. I would rather see the cost of the unit go up to 300 MP but reinforcement costs dropped down to like 15 or so

Theoretically, for 210MP you get really good CQC squad, with camo nades and ambush bonus.

But besides the fact that CoH2 is about go meta or nothing, there are clear problems:

1) Why PPSH even cost muni to begin with, while airborn guards and stormtrooprs get their smgs for free. Hardly justifiable that they are just more expensive.
2) AT partisans honestly suck, 1 schreck on a squishy 4 men squad.
3) Why there is no way to get reinforcements on the field or any kind of FOBs
4) For what they are partisans are expensive to reinforce
5) Vet is meh

Funny thing I just had a 4vs4 game and one player choose partisans...