nerf the fking pathfinder and Howitzer

Jump back to quoted post20 Oct 2022, 21:37 PMLooney

Speaking from 2s experience only. I feel like the MG42 pio opening vs the USF rifleman opening is actually pretty viable.

The USF player is outnumbered until the officer arrives. Getting a single rifle squad suppressed until that time means you almost lose 1 third of your attacking power. Which kinda makes it hard to win that crucial first engagement to hold down the fuel + cutoff.

Imo another reason why people prefer going paths.

Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2022, 15:33 PMBasedSecretary

I was never "away". Just started teaching on my university and have to keep up with lectures.

Noone argues the machinengewehr42 is the best mg in game. However it's static and early game is prone to flanking. That's why pios have vision. Devs said so themselves (won't bother bringin up patch notes, let vipper handle that).

Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2022, 15:34 PMBasedSecretary

>realize dragging and setting up takes """time"""
>realize you are too late
>mg42 goes down

Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2022, 16:42 PMVipper

The Ostheer/USF win ratio in 1vs1 for the last patch is 49/51 and 47/53 for top 200, that is an indication that Ostheer do not need a nerf vs USF.

Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2022, 17:10 PMMr Carmine

That has more to do with pathf and pack howi/scott then anything else imo.
Without paths those numbers will change quite bit i think.

Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2022, 17:10 PMMr Carmine

Putting the 42 vision range behind a bp is the right choice imo. If we ever get a patch ofcourse.

Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2022, 15:36 PMBasedSecretary

I would argue that your take is true.

USF in general rely very much on early game aggression/pressure to counteract their obvious lack of basic battlefield tools.

On those cases a decent OST player would defend their point well due to MG42. I never argued that.

I argued as to why it's important that pios get vision bonus.

Jump back to quoted post21 Oct 2022, 20:26 PMVipper

That is a very big assumption on your side and if true a big reason to change pathfinder since their performance is hiding other issues.


not really relevant to to Pathfinders.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 07:53 AMMr Carmine

Rifles not being cost effective has been said for quite a while. That people will use better options is only logical. That also leads to threads like this.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 07:53 AMMr Carmine

Rifles are often not replaced when lost because how much they cost/drain your recourses and they face stock and probably vetted axis elites by that time. That and rear echelons being almost impotent is the underlying issue.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 07:53 AMMr Carmine

Back to pio,s vision. If your mg 42 gets flanked in the first minute or 2 its not a weakness that needs to be covered by bonus sight from the first second. The mg 42 supresses near instantly most of the time. So if the bonus vision kicks in later its more balanced when there is more going on and to micro.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 09:19 AMVipper

And just because it has been "said" by some people it does not mean it true but not really the topic of this thread.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 09:19 AMVipper

Or that is simply an indication of how good USF elite infatry are

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 13:08 PMWilly Pete

Rifles are definitely relevant to paths spam. That like saying volks arent relevant if someone made a thread about fussies

Even tho paths aren't meant as a mainline like fussies, ppl are certainly using them that way. Thats the key to playing airborne, build as few rifles as possible

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 13:08 PMWilly Pete

Both can be true. That's not a contradictory statement to "rifles aren't cost effective"

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 09:19 AMVipper

And just because it has been "said" by some people it does not mean it true but not really the topic of this thread.

that doesnt mean its wrong. That more then some players avoid rifles after they got wiped is an good indication. The overuse of pathf ties into rifles. You cant just state in a vacuum x unit is UP or OP.

Or that is simply an indication of how good USF elite infatry are

yes that is true. Just other factions use/replace their mains more then just their stock or doctrinal elite.

If you want to talk about Pioneer sight I suggest you start a thread about it since this one is about Pathfinders and howitzers.

its sometimes neccesary to bring other units in to establish the claims or disprove them, you off all people should understand this

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 15:05 PMMr Carmine

Jump back to quoted post5 May 2022, 14:03 PMOrangePest

Rifles only have a poor matchup vs okw. If you know how to use your ranges you will demolish grens, their only counter is camo essentially.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 16:12 PMVipper

And this is what some other people have to say about riflemen:



Bringing another unit in debate is one thing, ranting about how OP pioneers and suggesting nerfs them for several post in thread about Pathfinder is another.


Pathfinder still need fixing despite riflemen/pios/HMG-42 and Liz Truss.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 14:17 PMVipper

Of coarse the cost efficiency of Riflemen and of Pathfinder is relevant as to what one will choose to build.

If Pathfinder are more cost efficient than Riflemen does not necessarily mean that Riflemen are an UP unit as some people seem to claim.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 14:17 PMVipper

And again its not proof that Riflemen are an UP.

There is little to support the claim that USF as a faction is weak vs Ostheer or to support that riflemen are UP.

In any case Pathfinders should be fixed.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 18:59 PMWilly Pete

In team games tho I find them much harder to use than any other mainline

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 18:19 PMMr Carmine

Panthfinder need adressing yes indeed. But so do lots of other things including rifles. You just want paths nerfed and be done with it. Thats where the issue stops for you.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 18:19 PMMr Carmine

I bring in units or things related to the isseu. The issue with paths is mostly their vision from stealth wich increases the power of scotts and pack howies greatly. And they dont bleed you dry.
The issue imo with rifles i stated earlier.

I brought up pio's sight because to a less extreme fashion it does a simaler thing yet its fine and stock. I never said pio's are op. They give an already very strong mg an edge to early. I dont find it an issue later in the game.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 18:19 PMMr Carmine

I cant help it that you get so annoyed that as soon as some one says axis units need fixing too. You always jump in to try and disprove and state all is fine or up and do a 180° when it concerns allied units, then almost everthing about them is fine or op.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 19:25 PMdonofsandiego

They're just worthless in fours against Obers, LMG grens, g4usies, etc. I just forget about them. I do NOT have this issue nearly as much with any other faction.

Jump back to quoted post22 Oct 2022, 22:07 PMVipper

You are guessing want I want now, I suggest you stick to what I actually post.

This is thread about Pathfinder and howizters. If in your opinion riflemen need changes I suggest you start a thread about them.


Pioneer and Pathfinders have very little in common, If you are not aware of it I suggest you try to spaming Pionners and what happens.



Now you are assuming what annoys me, I suggest you keep your focus on the Pathfinders and Howizters and not me.