Early Game Riflemen Rant

The modding team made sure of it through all the nerf and changes they brought to the faction in order to make it as they like it, like we would have had another patch they would have nerfed the scott and reach their objective of making USF a dead faction.

IF (and that's a huge IF) another patch is coming, they will sure as fuck nerf CUCKfinders + Scott combo for USF thereby putting in the final nail in the faction's coffin.

So USF players should not plead for a patch in the coming weeks.

IF (and that's a huge IF) another patch is coming, they will sure as fuck nerf CUCKfinders + Scott combo for USF thereby putting in the final nail in the faction's coffin.

So USF players should not plead for a patch in the coming weeks.

For a strategy you consider weak and easy to counter you have a strange way to spell it.

For a strategy you consider weak and easy to counter you have a strange way to spell it.

NAH IT'S JUST FUNNy

Build time was increased because the price for requisitioning Cpt/Ltn got 20 fuel cheaper, meaning they come out almost one minute earlier assuming a fuel bottleneck, which translates to 40-60 seconds in the game. USF can float a bit of fuel at this time with a standard 3x Rifle build, still this doesn't delay you for a full minute.
I don't know the exact build times before that patch, but by gut feeling anything that delays the officers for 30-40 seconds is probably sensible.

With the .50cal you mean the sprint removal and slight suppression nerf back in 2018?
The suppression change is a token change, the weapon suppresses super quickly anyway. Sprint removal is indeed a nerf, but a good one. A flanked MG should be properly countered at that point, it should not be able to just run away from the danger.

But as time, another faction could already build up next tech or get more men on field ( due to new officer has to spawn outside map, not on base.
Also .50 cal nerf set up time is a biggest hit since it always clumsly (sometime it take 1 burst some time it take 2-3-4 burst to suppress a single squad. That why a blob LMG can delete them) As least Maxim or Vicker could do something and retreat. They also not give .50 cal anything back to justify a nerf.
Talk about USF openning. they depend on Rifleman too much (2 rifle to rush officer or 3 rifle and officer, sometime 2 rifle and a mortar). As same time, OKW, WEH have more solutions.

Also Kubel is a thing. Unlike Sov, UKF, WEH, or even OKW. You dont have any thing to actually fight against it. This 200 mp can do various thing like bleeding, bait, push out of cover, back capping or even hackmap at vet 1.
in 2v2 and abrove, Kubel is massive unbalance unit that can simply deny a whole faction style and forcing them to pick a specific doctrine to deal with it such a Mechanize, airbrone. a combine of Kubel hack map and indirect fire is such a pain in an ass.

USF only have some slight issue against kubel & spio bait early game.

not too much of an issue early game against wehr until midgame where LMG gren terminators blobs start appearing.

mid to late game, your infantry will feel the bleed.

USF problem isnt particularly the riflemen problem but its the USF base unit balance which isnt on par in cost and performance wise. fine example Airborne spam.

But as time, another faction could already build up next tech or get more men on field ( due to new officer has to spawn outside map, not on base.
Also .50 cal nerf set up time is a biggest hit since it always clumsly (sometime it take 1 burst some time it take 2-3-4 burst to suppress a single squad. That why a blob LMG can delete them) As least Maxim or Vicker could do something and retreat. They also not give .50 cal anything back to justify a nerf.
Talk about USF openning. they depend on Rifleman too much (2 rifle to rush officer or 3 rifle and officer, sometime 2 rifle and a mortar). As same time, OKW, WEH have more solutions.

The 50cal is susceptible to LMG blobs because unlike Axis MGs, it does not get teleported when the Gun operator dies. This almost always leads to a long range death loop.
My argument regarding build time was that the current solution is probably not much different from the one we had before, since Esxile claimed this change were a timing nerf. I don't really think so unless someone provides some hard numbers from before and after those changes.

Where I agree is that USF is fairly weak early on. The weak Echelon starting squad combined with relatively expensive Riflemen and long build times on the officer basically ensures that you're at the very best on par with Axis for the first 4-5 minutes, but probably behind. Even compared with Ostheer.

Also Kubel is a thing. Unlike Sov, UKF, WEH, or even OKW. You dont have any thing to actually fight against it. This 200 mp can do various thing like bleeding, bait, push out of cover, back capping or even hackmap at vet 1.
in 2v2 and abrove, Kubel is massive unbalance unit that can simply deny a whole faction style and forcing them to pick a specific doctrine to deal with it such a Mechanize, airbrone. a combine of Kubel hack map and indirect fire is such a pain in an ass.

I fully agree. USF does not have proper answers to early stock units of Axis (sniper, Kubelwagen). Both create a huge bleed on many maps.

My argument regarding build time was that the current solution is probably not much different from the one we had before, since Esxile claimed this change were a timing nerf. I don't really think so unless someone provides some hard numbers from before and after those changes.

Where I agree is that USF is fairly weak early on. The weak Echelon starting squad combined with relatively expensive Riflemen and long build times on the officer basically ensures that you're at the very best on par with Axis for the first 4-5 minutes, but probably behind. Even compared with Ostheer.


I fully agree. USF does not have proper answers to early stock units of Axis (sniper, Kubelwagen). Both create a huge bleed on many maps.

Those are not in the patchnote because the adjustment was made during the patch preview. Everything was made to make the officer come the later possible.

Where I agree is that USF is fairly weak early on. The weak Echelon starting squad combined with relatively expensive Riflemen and long build times on the officer basically ensures that you're at the very best on par with Axis for the first 4-5 minutes, but probably behind. Even compared with Ostheer.


.

This is what used to kill me about playing USF. They are a snowball faction but the snowball is intentionally stalled by Officer timing. The build time is 55 seconds for your 4th mainline which is insane when compared to every other faction. Soviets don't even need to tech molotovs because they can just swarm OST, USF on the other hand cannot unless the MG was caught out of position. It wouldn't be so bad if if Rear echelon were actually useful in combat or the Elite units came in at CP2. As it stands it gives OST a chance to dig in which is where USF bleed starts to set in and get worse as the game goes on.

While on the topic of Officer tech, I still don't understand why everything takes so long to build. Several patches ago the LT build was dropped from 70 to 55s, but the MG had 10s added to the build time. The M20 takes almost a minute to build so at best it is out around 4m~30s. That gives it almost no time to pay itself off compared to the soviet flame car which can actually wipe units starting at the 3 min mark.

Those are not in the patchnote because the adjustment was made during the patch preview. Everything was made to make the officer come the later possible.

What is not in the patch notes and which adjustments are you talking about exactly?

This is what used to kill me about playing USF. They are a snowball faction but the snowball is intentionally stalled by Officer timing. The build time is 55 seconds for your 4th mainline which is insane when compared to every other faction. Soviets don't even need to tech molotovs because they can just swarm OST, USF on the other hand cannot unless the MG was caught out of position. It wouldn't be so bad if if Rear echelon were actually useful in combat or the Elite units came in at CP2. As it stands it gives OST a chance to dig in which is where USF bleed starts to set in and get worse as the game goes on.

While on the topic of Officer tech, I still don't understand why everything takes so long to build. Several patches ago the LT build was dropped from 70 to 55s, but the MG had 10s added to the build time. The M20 takes almost a minute to build so at best it is out around 4m~30s. That gives it almost no time to pay itself off compared to the soviet flame car which can actually wipe units starting at the 3 min mark.

I remember in 3v3s when I used to play with the mortar to smoke the MGs. Was kept in the 200-300 ranks. Then I decided, if the map is sh*t; like Rheine beach VP area, and you're spawned northeast, meaning that one MG42 can have a perfect green cover position and cover both the VP, and the fuel perfectly, and still have enough arc to cover the bushes next to the water. I'd smoke it, but the MG would reposition and I wouldn't really have enough infantry to dislodge the pioneers in green cover and 2-3 grens, which would win cover to cover fights on that map against rifles, and I'd keep bleeding hard. Can't storm pios in green cover with rifles as the pios will take out at least 3 models before retreating, and you can't just stay behind cover, fighting grens, because grens will win. You have a mortar which is negating the repositioning MG, but it's not doing damage nor barraging the grens, because it needs to keep smoking the mortar, and you're down in infantry, on a stupidly designed map where you have a much longer run to the fuel/VP (the other side, the "town" side, is much superior for the southeastern spawn, meaning it's much easier to contest the top fuel). You'll be bleeding, rifles won't fit well behind the small green cover which can fit 4 model grens perfectly, and you'll keep retreating.

Then I just decided to say f*ck it. USF fairs poorly on most 3v3 maps and you need to adjust. So I would not even contest the fuel/VP for the first 7 minutes, and I'd just help the closest teammate.
Before the major pak howi nerf, the pak howis were the mid game snowball for me, allowing me to dislodge mortars and mgs easily. Now, I use them mostly for barraging forward positions, as the AOE is nothing to write home about (gave the 6th man for the nerf (double nerf disguised as buff), which just means more bleed as the pak howi is 1.25 TargetSize and slow AF).

Now I've been playing in the 5-30 ranks for the past year or so. Just because I accepted the fact that unless you go for pathfinders (which I don't like to play all that much due to lack of snares), you just won't dislodge OST from most 3v3 maps if you're spawned poorly and against OKW you need luck and aggression.

Of course, balance team knew all of this. It's not a conspiracy or anything but you have a balance team where the most prominent members mostly play axis, The most active community balancer (sturmpanther) is German and the game is balanced around 1v1s... Add to that the fact (Sander confirmed) the balance team has not been payed for the work in any way-shape-or-form... you get why there is inherent bias in the decisions. I can completely understand that. Each person on the planet is biased towards something.

You can have 3000 OST games, 3000 OKW games, 2000 USF games, 2000 UKF games (God forbid), 2000 Soviet games, you'll still have a favourite faction/unit/ability/commander. You won't say "AXIS OP; ALLIES UP" or the other way around, but in the end, you will be happier than most if your favourite faction/unit receives buffs/changes.

Theory:
"Mode team clearly wanted axis to dominate in 3vs3 in high level play that is why the keep nerfing USF because the want to easily win"

Stats:
USF winrates in 3vs3 are the highest in this patch at 56.4%
https://coh2stats.com/stats?range=range&statsSource=top200&type=3v3&race=wermacht&fromTimeStamp=1631145600&toTimeStamp=1652140800

Theory:
"Mode team clearly wanted axis to dominate in 3vs3 in high level play that is why the keep nerfing USF because the want to easily win"

Stats:
USF winrates in 3vs3 are the highest in this patch at 56.4%
https://coh2stats.com/stats?range=range&statsSource=top200&type=3v3&race=wermacht&fromTimeStamp=1631145600&toTimeStamp=1652140800

isn't that only top 200 ?

edit: well, he said high lv.

isn't that only top 200 ?

edit: well, he said high lv.

The theory is that the MOD team that plays high level games as Axis want to win, do you actually agree with this theory?

Even if you look at USF still have the highest allied win ration at 50.1%

The theory is that the MOD team that plays high level games as Axis want to win, do you actually agree with this theory?

Even if you look at USF still have the highest allied win ration at 50.1%

i already corrected myself and dont have anything to add to any theory.