USF Pathfinder spam is too efficient (2v2)

You know what's funny?

16 may 2018


Only to then give an even better ability to OKW 6 months later

20 Novembre 2018

JP4s don't get a tank commander upgrade, so the only 60 range tank destroyer they have can't actually be upgraded. So whoopdeefuckin' do?

End game vetted 720mp 270 fuel unit with a doctrinal upgrade can see as far as a 280mp tier 0 doctrinal 0cp unit, fair comparison

+100

Base Unit Vision is 35 for the King Tiger. Spearhead Vet 1 brings the Vision up to 52 Vision. This is without any Doctrinal Upgrade. Rather than give a flat vision amount Spearhead gives 50% increase in vision.


Panzer Commander gives a flat increase in vision increase of +10 which increases the base amount that the Spearhead Vision Multiplier works on which puts the King Tiger at roughly 68 Vision (Game tends to round up in some instances when decimals are used.)


Using this combo I regularly get a King Tiger to Vet 5 since you have to be fairly retarded to lose your King Tiger when you can visually see almost half the map.

JP4s don't get a tank commander upgrade, so the only 60 range tank destroyer they have can't actually be upgraded. So whoopdeefuckin' do?

Company of Heroes 2 is a game about Combined Arms. King Tiger with Spearhead has more vision than Pathfinder does and a game breaking 68 vision with Panzer Commander which allows the King Tiger to be the ultimate spotting unit that can't be taken out easily allowing your JP4 to always attack max range. Factor in Heat Shells and you have a combo which is almost unbeatable but Jackson having Pioneer vision is too good for the unit but not good enough for Axis apparently.

You know what's funny?

16 may 2018


Only to then give an even better ability to OKW 6 months later

20 Novembre 2018

They also gutted T-70 Vision as well. One of the reasons why Soviets are as good as they are now is because the SU-85 is able to make safe trades from Max Range using the Sight Bonus.



Vision is far more crucial to winning end game engagements which is why you see the rise of Pathfinder spam because it is literally the only viable (Keyword is viable for those who want to point out M20) unit that USF has available or are we expecting every USF player to get a Stuart and have it tickle the enemy for 15 minutes just to get Vet 1 to have the same vision as Pioneer.

snip

If it were such a godmode combo as you make it out to be you'd probably win more games than you've lost in your most played mode, which isn't the case.

You know the unit is batshit crazy, when the only comparison in defence of it is veted KT with panzer commander on top if it

I say lets make pathfinders be available at half of the timing of mentioned KT, they can even have stock BAR and their max vision. Would be an ideal fix if you ask me.

No people get these units for their recon ability. Why do you think this thread exists in the first place? Pathfinders ability to locate static defenses like mg42's is the main complaint for most people. but then again, most people do not adept

So riddle me this. If people get the unit for it's recon ability then why are they spammed? Is it so that you have multiple spotters across the entire map? Having 2-3 Spares so you always have one on the field during retreats?

I'm not denying that the vision is part of it but it's pretty reductionist to say that it's the main draw. Otherwise you'd see a lot more IR Halftracks and the like built. If you're looking to make Pathfinder spam less toxic it's a lot more palatable to tweak their sight than fiddle with their combat ability because nobody likes weak scout units *cough cough* old I&R Pathfinders.

So riddle me this. If people get the unit for it's recon ability then why are they spammed? Is it so that you have multiple spotters across the entire map? Having 2-3 Spares so you always have one on the field during retreats?

I'm not denying that the vision is part of it but it's pretty reductionist to say that it's the main draw. Otherwise you'd see a lot more IR Halftracks and the like built. If you're looking to make Pathfinder spam less toxic it's a lot more palatable to tweak their sight than fiddle with their combat ability because nobody likes weak scout units *cough cough* old I&R Pathfinders.

Each faction has it own reason so lets go through them.

pathfinder spam is because of the bar upgrade. Otherwise, nobody would spam them. so in this case its a faction mechanic thats the culprit not the units itself.

for the pf's its simply because volks are that bad. PF's are just a slightly better at dps but they still get replaced with obers. still pf's are rather inefficient. pit a pf against a rifle/IS/penal and the results are not pretty.

as for the pg's with g43's they are just that good. its surprising so few people are using them.

keep in mind that safe for pg's with g43' every single scout unit does less damage then a dedicated combat unit. thats why you dont see JLI spam.

Each faction has it own reason so lets go through them.

pathfinder spam is because of the bar upgrade. Otherwise, nobody would spam them. so in this case its a faction mechanic thats the culprit not the units itself.

for the pf's its simply because volks are that bad. PF's are just a slightly better at dps but they still get replaced with obers. still pf's are rather inefficient. pit a pf against a rifle/IS/penal and the results are not pretty.

as for the pg's with g43's they are just that good. its surprising so few people are using them.

keep in mind that safe for pg's with g43' every single scout unit does less damage then a dedicated combat unit. thats why you dont see JLI spam.

JLI absolutely do good damage due to their sniping mechanic and i saw people spamming them

except its just as good to have these as force multipliers and have other okw infantry act as a mainline

Each faction has it own reason so lets go through them.

pathfinder spam is because of the bar upgrade. Otherwise, nobody would spam them. so in this case its a faction mechanic thats the culprit not the units itself.

for the pf's its simply because volks are that bad. PF's are just a slightly better at dps but they still get replaced with obers. still pf's are rather inefficient. pit a pf against a rifle/IS/penal and the results are not pretty.

as for the pg's with g43's they are just that good. its surprising so few people are using them.

keep in mind that safe for pg's with g43' every single scout unit does less damage then a dedicated combat unit. thats why you dont see JLI spam.

True for Barfinders.

For OKW, pretty much mainline is "good" in the sense that they can always forward tech and replace lost Volks/PFs/JLI with Obers. Other factions do not have that ease sadly. USF originally do not, so they must rely on reordering Riflemen and then again equip them with BARS etc. Airborne doc fixes that by giving you strong reserves with Paratroopers.

Notorious factions that do not have this ease without doctrines: UKF, USF, SOV (unless you backtech for Penals).

JLI absolutely do good damage due to their sniping mechanic and i saw people spamming them

except its just as good to have these as force multipliers and have other okw infantry act as a mainline

Too true. People (even wehraboos) do not realize how powerful that is. Most, when going for JLI, go for a shitty 1 volk, 1 kubel and stall opening which limits (if not completely obliterates them) their effectiveness. 2 Volks + 2 JLI is just as effective.

as a wehrboo, we have been bringing up this barsfinder problem since last year!

in 2v2 it is too efficient, pair with soviet. GG versus ranks +/- 200.

sad relic is not doing anything yet.

1 RE
3 path
1 quad or ATG, map dependent and aggression or dig in
1 sherman or scotts, as above.

i think is a very easy fix to weaken the efficiency...

look at positives of paths

0cp
fast deploy next unit
easy to vet
cheapish reinforce
cheapish popcap
higher sight
first sniper shot
camo
arty call
equip weapon racks


its strength is in the early-mid, where they vet up fast, drain axis mp.

just do something like slower their vetting, or increase reinforce costs and time. give axis a breathing space to counter by going T3 at least.

or reduce delay the sight, imagine 3 units on a 2v2 map all with extended sight for free..seriously?

as a wehrboo

can you not

as an alliedcuck, I've pissed my pants crying about how incredibly boring and unfun it is to play USF. If you could nerf pathfinders and then, like, I don't know, make the faction not suck ten metric tons of sewage sludge through I.V. tubing that would be absolutely fantastic!

as an alliedcuck, I've pissed my pants crying about how incredibly boring and unfun it is to play USF. If you could nerf pathfinders and then, like, I don't know, make the faction not suck ten metric tons of sewage sludge through I.V. tubing that would be absolutely fantastic!

yes but it has be shown USF have good winrates. maybe it drops a bit with some path nerf, but that is open to see.

the thing is no one is asking for big nerf bat to path. but to analyse their plenty of strong attributes and reduce their efficiency in 1-2 spots, either in early-mid or late games.

my preference is rebalance of their early-mid strengths to allow axis some room to counter in 2v2.

yes but it has be shown USF have good winrates. maybe it drops a bit with some path nerf, but that is open to see...my preference is rebalance of their early-mid strengths to allow axis some room to counter in 2v2.

I don't care about their winrates, I care about how mind-numbingly boring it is to play USF in anything other than a sweaty 1v1 setting. Sure, they have multiple viable commanders in 1v1, but in 4v4? Not so much.

I don't care about their winrates, I care about how mind-numbingly boring it is to play USF in anything other than a sweaty 1v1 setting. Sure, they have multiple viable commanders in 1v1, but in 4v4? Not so much.

Totally agreed. In 4v4 whoever has the fastest Rocket Arty + Long Range Arti + Loiters/Bombing runs win. That's why axis have huge advantages in that gamemode.

I don't care about their winrates, I care about how mind-numbingly boring it is to play USF in anything other than a sweaty 1v1 setting. Sure, they have multiple viable commanders in 1v1, but in 4v4? Not so much.

it is weird to use path in 4v4 no? if you want arty, go caliope or priest.

paths is not really OP in 4v4 than in 2v2.

it is weird to use path in 4v4 no? if you want arty, go caliope or priest.

paths is not really OP in 4v4 than in 2v2.

You mean meme-commander #1 and cuck-general #2?

You mean meme-commander #1 and cuck-general #2?

I dont get this

But you can use path in 4v4 sure. But is still manageable against Axis.

Path meme is most oppressive in 2v2. Just because of the maps and resources and such. So even a slight nerf to mp costs and reinforcement times etc, will give axis breathing space in mid games

I dont get this

But you can use path in 4v4 sure. But is still manageable against Axis.

Path meme is most oppressive in 2v2. Just because of the maps and resources and such. So even a slight nerf to mp costs and reinforcement times etc, will give axis breathing space in mid games

I was referring to the fact that Calliope/Land Matress commanders are dead-useless in 4v4.

I was referring to the fact that Calliope/Land Matress commanders are dead-useless in 4v4.

I'm assuming you haven't seen sprinting zook ranger horde yet and the land matress one is based.