Pioneers - the biggest broken OST unit.

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2022, 14:23 PMaerafield

Wait until you find out about the sight range of Kubels, M3s, Pathfinders and snipers who all have essentially the same timing

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2022, 14:17 PMRiley

Pios have sight range 40. This means that they can know in advance where the vickers or maxim is located. And suppress your machine gun. For a long time I did not understand how the mg42 was shooting at me from the fog of war. Everything turned out to be simple - this is the sight range of the pioneers. How easily I take fuel or another important point in the early-early game, this is guaranteed.


This is not a problem in general, it is only debut problem and the solution to the problem is very simple. Move the sight range 40 to the 1 vet. The base sight range should be 35, like other units: combat eng, royal eng, and RE. It made more sense to give such to the rear echelon in order to coordinate the mortar. I remember Sturmäger talking about the pioneers a long time ago, but then no one else paid any attention to it.

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2022, 14:55 PMProtos Angelus

It's actually 42 range. They ain't broken though. Giving them 42 range at vet1 would nerf them a bit in 3v3 and 4v4 I guess. Don't know how that would impact 1v1 and 2v2. Maybe that would be too big of a nerf. Who knows.

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2022, 15:39 PMBasedSecretary

You must be new.

Wait till he finds out about Path spamming, Kubelwagens and the all important sniper that exist in the game Company of Heroes 2.

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2022, 15:41 PMRiley

You seem to want to confuse this thread. I advise you to read again what I wrote.

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2022, 17:17 PMGeblobt

Im kinda confused. Is a faction with such an overpowered starting unit not supposed to be very good? Cause slightly below 50% winrate in 1vs1 since september is kinda low for this balance mess.

Its probably a visual bug. In reality Ost has almost 80% winrate cause Pios have map hack. We live with this broken unit since launch and nothing has been done. Thank you balance team. Im glad riley brought this up.

The 52% winrate with USF is a visual bug too btw. Rifleman trash. Pls buff. Thank you.

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2022, 16:27 PMBasedSecretary

Ok I will gladly get serious with you. Pioneers, as a unit, is a pretty useless one. It's not squishy, and if you don't upgrade with Flamer it's combat useless.

Its only upsides are in support roles: laying mines, barbed wire and seeing further than purely combat units in order to assist with target marking. That's a good thing, and it ties perfectly to pioneers design philosophy.

I think it needs no change whatsoever. Those kind of topics are really cringe imho, since you are literally picking and examining mechanisms that have been in place for almost a decade.

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2022, 17:22 PMRiley

Well, i see you have a wild fear that broken things in your favorite faction will be fixed. The arguments are absolutely trash. There is no reason why the pioneers with the mp40 have such high sight range, unless the are helping the MG42 shoot out of the fog of war in the first minute of the game.. Things have been around for 10 years and they've been fixed, so that's fine.

Any engineers have the same philosophy, laying mines, barbed wire but. But osther pios also have jager sight bonus.

Nothing will happen, don't worry. Let's just shift the sight range 42 to 1 vet.

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2022, 17:22 PMRiley

Well, i see you have a wild fear that broken things in your favorite faction will be fixed. The arguments are absolutely trash. There is no reason why the pioneers with the mp40 have such high sight range, unless the are helping the MG42 shoot out of the fog of war in the first minute of the game.. Things have been around for 10 years and they've been fixed, so that's fine.
....

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2022, 17:44 PMVipper

"Pioneers
Our aim is to encourage positional play and combined arms, which the Wehrmacht faction tends to reply on more than any other faction. With an increase in sight (albeit still lower than pathfinders) we are allowing Pioneers to help spot for their HMGs and other support teams.
Sight increased from 35 to 42"

It is by design.

Actually Relic was going to give the extra sight to grenadiers and proposed pioneers instead...

Jump back to quoted post15 Feb 2022, 18:08 PMRiley

So no one says to remove this. Just shift it to vet 1. Pioneers will still have this bonus. There's no reason to have it so early to shoot out of the fog of war with the mg42 in the first contact.

This is a broken thing. And this needs to be fixed.