Can we revive Mechanized?

What is everybody's opinion on the Original Mechanized's Withdraw and Refit.

I personally wasn't a great fan. Sending back a full health vehicle which is maybe vetted (since WC51 lost crew you can't even exchange crew and keep vet that way) to get only a part of the cost back contradicts the basic game mechanic of unit preservation (and best use of available ressources).
The idea of unit preservation is that early game units can scale into the late game by still beeing useful with veterancy. WC51 can be useful for scouting and the use of its abilities for example.

For the same reason I don't like Rapid Conscription and Relief Infantry. You get brand new early game squads at a time (5CPs) where you want to play with vetted ones. Brand new non-elite squads get eaten alive by elite units at that time.

[code][/code]as I remembered you cant Withdraw and Refit without leave crew outside, right ?. Because of that, I rater let my LV fight to late game than Refit them....

What is everybody's opinion on the Original Mechanized's Withdraw and Refit.

I liked the ability. It allowed players a different play style where they could invest heavy on light vehicles and then get exchange them when they started losing value.

Imo the ability felt victim of the "rush into final tier" mentality

I would rather see it improved than removed.

[code][/code]as I remembered you cant Withdraw and Refit without leave crew outside, right ?. Because of that, I rater let my LV fight to late game than Refit them....

I used to call in say the stuart switch crews and then withdraw and refit. Unless no meaningful vet was gained.

I personally wasn't a great fan. Sending back a full health vehicle which is maybe vetted (since WC51 lost crew you can't even exchange crew and keep vet that way) to get only a part of the cost back contradicts the basic game mechanic of unit preservation (and best use of available ressources).
The idea of unit preservation is that early game units can scale into the late game by still beeing useful with veterancy. WC51 can be useful for scouting and the use of its abilities for example.

For the same reason I don't like Rapid Conscription and Relief Infantry. You get brand new early game squads at a time (5CPs) where you want to play with vetted ones. Brand new non-elite squads get eaten alive by elite units at that time.

Wow you said it really well.

I would prefer if Rapid Conscription and Relief Infantry was a small passive bonus instead of an activated ability based on how many units/models you lost. Really hard to use this ability well when you have to expect to lose infantry.

The Cavalry rifles at 0cp shouldn't even be considered a buff. It literally makes them part of the build just like every other assault unit that starts on cooldown.
What about just giving the 76mm HE/AT shells like the regular Sherman but the AT has better stats. That way you play it the same way as a regular Sherman but better similar to the T3476 vs 85.

I agree. Making Cavalry Rifles CP 1 basically makes them never used.
All the other factions have 0 CP 5 man SMG troops. Perhaps it would make sense?

Wow you said it really well.

I would prefer if Rapid Conscription and Relief Infantry was a small passive bonus instead of an activated ability based on how many units/models you lost. Really hard to use this ability well when you have to expect to lose infantry.

What about making the ability reduce reinforce time and cost by 30%, that way big pushes are rewarded and getting your army back into fighting position a bit easier.

I used to call in say the stuart switch crews and then withdraw and refit. Unless no meaningful vet was gained.

Smart.

Am I the only one who thinks it's still the best or maybe second best US commander? Would love to hear top player's opinions on this but the top 200 popularity ranking is definitely not representative of its strength.

Am I the only one who thinks it's still the best or maybe second best US commander? Would love to hear top player's opinions on this but the top 200 popularity ranking is definitely not representative of its strength.

are you talking 1vs1 or another mode?

Am I the only one who thinks it's still the best or maybe second best US commander? Would love to hear top player's opinions on this but the top 200 popularity ranking is definitely not representative of its strength.

I might not be a top200 USF player but I can tell you why it's most likely not popular and that's because it's not adding anything that the USF really needs.

Like what do you get from the doctrine? Early light vehicle? Nice, but that's early game. Cav Riflemen? Cool close range infantry, but USF doesn't struggle in close range engagements. M3 Halftrack? An interesting replacement for the ambulance I suppose but it's a bit of a waste to be selecting a commander for an ambulance replacement. Sherman 76? Yeah I mean it's neat and all but it's a Jack-of-All-Trades unit in a faction 90% made up of them. Combined Arms? It's expensive and lackluster.

Now that you've chosen this commander and the novelty factor's worn off; how are you dealing with the axis lategame units? They're tearing you apart at long range and your cav roflmen can't do a thing about it. How are you dealing with axis heavy tanks? Got another bounce from the 76 on the Panther, really regretting not having gone Jackson at this point.

It's like a gimmick commander but the gimmick is sucking eggs.

EDIT: Added the third paragraph.

Am I the only one who thinks it's still the best or maybe second best US commander? Would love to hear top player's opinions on this but the top 200 popularity ranking is definitely not representative of its strength.

At best I'm a high 200s 1v1 player (for what it's worth). I don't think Mechanized is bad per se' its more a collection of underrated units and abilities that allow you to do different and interesting things but nothing really wows. For me Calvary Rifles are the highlight of the doctrine for their earlier timing, utility of smoke (criminally forgotten about), and being a rare elite(ish) unit with a snare. M3 lets you do some cheeky things and Mortar HT gives you more early game indirect options (and I've always liked the Vet 0 WP even if it's not super strong). I think Combined Arms can swing pivotal engagements (hello Jackson reload bonus) but it's not a flashy munitions dump.

Where is falls out for me is that when you consider it for your loadout other Commanders just start to look more attractive. Rangers and Paras have a higher ceiling and elite bazookas make up for no snares/can have more impact. New Easy 8 has several perks over the 76MM. Calliope is the Calliope. Most Commanders have better offmaps or munitions dumps. At the end of the day I think Mechanized is good-ish but more in a pre-planned strategy role where you're not crutching on a strong doctrinal late game.

Am I the only one who thinks it's still the best or maybe second best US commander? Would love to hear top player's opinions on this but the top 200 popularity ranking is definitely not representative of its strength.

as top 100 1v1/2v2 USF, Mechanized no longer good in 2v2. even 1v1 without a specific build like Rifle - wc51 -Rife - fast Lieu - call in Mechanized rifleman - 2 M20 to apply heavy presure - M5 stuart > close the game.
Cut down M4 76 RoF and M4 75 bulldozer upgrade is terrible, Mechanized based on P/P unit. Without those thing, they can complete with current combine (M4 HE + M36).
Yes, it could be the 2nd strongest commander but it also not easy as well.

WC51 .50 cal upgrade takes too long
M3 halftrack gains vet incredibly slowly. The speed ability is needed for survival
76 sherman underperforms. It needs explosive rounds like the regular sherman. No reason for it to not have that.

With out a doubt cav rifles need to be 0 cp with thompson upgrade just delayed until 1 cp not sure they even need delayed because by the time you get munitions to afford them its usually 1 cp anyway. They are meant to be an early game steamroll i would assume just like other assault infantry but they cant do that when they cant be built from the start you either you wait and sacrifice by having less squads which is hard to do or forced to make more rifles. They could also maybe use a little better vet for late game as currently late game they just become satchel throwers i dont expect them to be great late game but just a little more relevant they are complete trash later just get focused fired and drop like flys, a sprint ability would maybe fix that too but would maybe be too harsh early game.

WC51 .50 cal upgrade takes too long
M3 halftrack gains vet incredibly slowly. The speed ability is needed for survival
76 sherman underperforms. It needs explosive rounds like the regular sherman. No reason for it to not have that.

There a reason, if 76mm had both HAVP and HE rounds it would be broken

With out a doubt cav rifles need to be 0 cp with thompson upgrade just delayed until 1 cp not sure they even need delayed because by the time you get munitions to afford them its usually 1 cp anyway...

Car riflemen riding WC51 at CP 0 would be broken.

There a reason, if 76mm had both HAVP and HE rounds it would be broken

I'm not entirely sure about it. The shell switch delay does make the switching of shell in the middle of a combat pretty much useless. So if we assume we have two of them and are fighting a mixed force 2x 76mm would be still worse than a M4A3/M36 combo. Why? While one 76mm would be just a more expensive copy of M4A3 with HE shell which can do nothing versus tanks, the other one would still underperform in AT comparison to M36 with an AP shell that does nothing versus infantry.
The bonus in variety would be using both with HE or AP shell if you are fighting infantry or tanks only of course. Still you would have your pants down if you run into the other kind of unit type. In addition the 76mm doesn't scale very well versus the late game tanks. I do think it wouldn't be broken. And if it turns out to be too good after all you could just balance by delaying the shell switch further or adapting unit cost.
Either way HE/AP shell switch could work out because 76mm would be a straight upgrade of M4A3 instead of beeing inferior to M4A3/M36 at AI and AT.

Car riflemen riding WC51 at CP 0 would be broken.

We already found two solutions for it:
a) setting WC51 to 1CP
b) turning WC51 into combat unit with MG but without transport option

Cav Rifes have to be at CP 0 to be an alternative to standard Rifle build.

I'm not entirely sure about it. The shell switch delay does make the switching of shell in the middle of a combat pretty much useless. So if we assume we have two of them and are fighting a mixed force 2x 76mm would be still worse than a M4A3/M36 combo. Why? While one 76mm would be just a more expensive copy of M4A3 with HE shell which can do nothing versus tanks, the other one would still underperform in AT comparison to M36 with an AP shell that does nothing versus infantry.
The bonus in variety would be using both with HE or AP shell if you are fighting infantry or tanks only of course. Still you would have your pants down if you run into the other kind of unit type. In addition the 76mm doesn't scale very well versus the late game tanks. I do think it wouldn't be broken. And if it turns out to be too good after all you could just balance by delaying the shell switch further or adapting unit cost.
Either way HE/AP shell switch could work out because 76mm would be a straight upgrade of M4A3 instead of beeing inferior to M4A3/M36 at AI and AT.

Yes it would be OP, having a single vehicle with the best HE round and the Best AP round is simply too much. Changing shell is close to simple reload so it less of an issue than it presented.

76mm/M36 combo would better than M4A3/M36 because it would have same AI and far better AT.

The 76mm scale better than other mediums versus "late game tanks" when in numbers it can take many of the "late game tanks".

The M4A3 is one of the most cost efficient stock medium tanks and m36 is OP by design, trying to create a unit that outperform them is simply asking for trouble.

As a lv19 USF 1v1 player who uses Mechanized every single game against OKW, I find this thread hilarious.

Yes it would be OP, having a single vehicle with the best HE round and the Best AP round is simply too much. Changing shell is close to simple reload so it less of an issue than it presented.

Dont know why you are only refering to the label HE and AP. Overall it isn't the best AI shell nor the best AT shell. At AI I like the shell of other mediums like PZIV and T34/85 a lot more, both deal less consistent damage but have a higher chance to wipe. Higher Wiping chance clearly outshines more consistent damage with less wiping chance in a game that is about unit preservation. Keeping your vetted troops alive is key. In addition PZIV and T34/85 don't need to switch shell to be efficient vs armoured targets. A further advantage.

We don't need to talk about AT, there are multiple tanks better than 76mm in that compartment. Thats fine of course because 76mm should be more of an allrounder.

In the end beeing op is just about a unit being too cheap for its performance in ressource cost and population. I already said that a cost adjustment could be necessary

As a lv19 USF 1v1 player who uses Mechanized every single game against OKW, I find this thread hilarious.

Maybe you can elaborate about your tactics so that other players see the benefit of this commander? Overall its only place 6 in commander loadout in 1vs1 and non-existent in any game mode above it. Maybe you played it in 2vs2 or up too and could tell us about that too? If you came just to say that you find the thread hilarious without saying a single word about how it should be used yout post is just useless and insulting. If you tell us how it should be used and why other people underestimate it your post could be actually really useful. I would appreciate that.