They are fine imo.
1. Not central part of the meta in any game mode.
2. They break up the hated sandbag camping/double mg static frontline gameplay that so many people hate.
3. People who want them nerfed are mostly people who are incapable of using them themselves.
4. They create an interseting asymmetry where onen player has to be active constantly to avoid bleed and try to convert the lack of stopping power of his opponent into map control.
Why are snipers getting nerfed?
4 Sep 2021, 02:14 AM
#1
Posts: 713 | Subs: 2
4 Sep 2021, 02:44 AM
#2
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Because if the user isn't stupid the only way to kill them is through countersnipe or diving. 2 factions which don't even have their own sniper to counter.
4 Sep 2021, 03:02 AM
#3
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
3. People who want them nerfed are mostly people who are incapable of using them themselves.
Yeah their names are USF and OKW
4 Sep 2021, 04:30 AM
#4
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
They are fine imo.
1. Not central part of the meta in any game mode.
2. They break up the hated sandbag camping/double mg static frontline gameplay that so many people hate.
3. People who want them nerfed are mostly people who are incapable of using them themselves.
4. They create an interseting asymmetry where onen player has to be active constantly to avoid bleed and try to convert the lack of stopping power of his opponent into map control.
Absolutely agree. I mean we're talking about a unit that has been (deservedly) hit by the nerf hammer multiple times over the years and is now no longer a one-man army but rather just another valuable piece in the tactical toolset of CoH2.
Wanting certain units in the game to be balanced is one thing, but I've never understood the desire to outright remove entire gameplay elements completely. It seems like the same people who regularly call for all indirect fire to be nerfed into oblivion and all heavy tanks purged from existence are the ones who also want to see snipers gone for good.
I, for one, am glad that snipers always have and hopefully always will be part of the CoH franchise and the game isn't devolving into a WW1 simulator.
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4 Sep 2021, 04:53 AM
#5
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Wanting certain units in the game to be balanced is one thing, but I've never understood the desire to outright remove entire gameplay elements completely.
If snipers qualify as "gameplay elements" of the franchise, then every faction should get them. Stock
4 Sep 2021, 06:21 AM
#6
Posts: 658
They are fine imo.
People who want them nerfed are mostly people who are incapable of using them themselves.
Balance Team mainly plays as Axis. They have been trying to turn the game into a Tower Defense for the MG-42 and have nerfed everything that threatens their tower defense meta. 120MM, Pak Howitzer, M8 Scott, Calliope, Brit Mortar Pit, Land Mattress. You name it if its on Allies side it has been nerfed over the years and now they are nerfing snipers so that OKW can just run freely and the tower defense meta is cemented on the shite maps that they themselves created for us to play on.
Meanwhile every patch Axis get some form of Broken BS (SturmTiger, JLI, Sector Assault, Fallshirmjaeger, invisible grenadier rifle grenades from Ambush Camo..etc)
If snipers qualify as "gameplay elements" of the franchise, then every faction should get them. Stock
Agreed, each faction should have the same access to similar tools. Mortar, Sniper, Artillery, 60 range tanks.
4 Sep 2021, 11:06 AM
#7
Posts: 281
A small nerf is fine imo, the current 5sec slow nerf in the patch preview is too much
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4 Sep 2021, 11:44 AM
#8
2 Posts: 538
They are fine imo.
1. Not central part of the meta in any game mode.
2. They break up the hated sandbag camping/double mg static frontline gameplay that so many people hate.
3. People who want them nerfed are mostly people who are incapable of using them themselves.
4. They create an interseting asymmetry where onen player has to be active constantly to avoid bleed and try to convert the lack of stopping power of his opponent into map control.
I am completely with you.
If it is Kimbo playing Wehr on Langres - ok, the sniper is nearly unkillable in a game like that.
In most other circumstances is rarely is the OP unit. Even in tournaments. Was it absused? It was not played often. That is a strong indicator.
Yes, Barton's 5Sniper play was awesome. But that was years ago
.
It is not built super often. And it is fun. I would love to leave it as is.
Greetings from Nürnberg - always happy to increase our local COH pool for local events - more glory: Rankade ladder
4 Sep 2021, 12:16 PM
#9
Posts: 1594
Snipers would be fine if, as has been mentioned, everyone actually had access to them. As it stands two factions need to either severely outplay their opponent to deal with the threat (Losing a valuable unit of their own in exchange if they fail), or they have to pick a doctrine to counter a stock unit.
CoH3 seems to be giving every faction a sniper, presumably having realised they're not a good source of asymmetry.
CoH3 seems to be giving every faction a sniper, presumably having realised they're not a good source of asymmetry.
4 Sep 2021, 13:26 PM
#10
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Snipers should permanently be on 0.8 times the regular infantry speed.
4 Sep 2021, 13:32 PM
#11
Posts: 219
i don't think it needs a nerf, it diversifies gameplay
OST Wehraboo 4v4 main
4 Sep 2021, 14:26 PM
#12
Posts: 472
A small nerf is fine imo, the current 5sec slow nerf in the patch preview is too much
Partially rolled back to 2.5 sec.
6 Sep 2021, 08:05 AM
#13
Posts: 578
If snipers qualify as "gameplay elements" of the franchise, then every faction should get them. Stock
OKW has kubel, which burns snipers down when caught out of position; and doctrinal JLI which is effective.
If russians have to use a commander to get both penals and an AT gun, then why is it so bad for OKW to use commander to get JLI?
USA has a harder time than OKW against snipers, but they still get LVs.
This sniper nerf is purely for top level play and just makes snipers worse for the vast majority of players. It's not needed and was dialed back, which says a lot.
So thanks for your post, but no.
Should be the case in coh3 tho, for sure. All factions need equal access to combined arms gameplay.
It's Relic's responsibility.
6 Sep 2021, 08:50 AM
#14
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
This sniper nerf is purely for top level play and just makes snipers worse for the vast majority of players. It's not needed and was dialed back, which says a lot.
So thanks for your post, but no.
Should be the case in coh3 tho, for sure. All factions need equal access to combined arms gameplay.
I didn't say anything about the sniper nerf? I don't agree with how they are nerfing them
I also didn't say that USF and OKW don't have counters to snipers. All I'm saying is that if someone says they shouldn't be removed because they are critical to the game, then it would seem fair that everyone should have them
I think everyone should have them or no one should
6 Sep 2021, 11:41 AM
#15
Posts: 1594
If russians have to use a commander to get both penals and an AT gun, then why is it so bad for OKW to use commander to get JLI?
SOV do not need to use a commander to get both Penals and an AT gun. They have them stock, their teching situation isnt the same thing as literally not having access to an unit type.
6 Sep 2021, 12:55 PM
#16
Posts: 578
SOV do not need to use a commander to get both Penals and an AT gun. They have them stock, their teching situation isnt the same thing as literally not having access to an unit type.
It is though.
It's Relic's responsibility.
6 Sep 2021, 13:10 PM
#17
Posts: 1515
Snipers should be, as Jaeger said, slower than other units, so that soft retreat is not a thing for them unless it's preemptive. Also sight should be a bit less than the sniper range. They are fine, not OP in the slightest. And that's coming from an USF/OKW player only. Never built a sniper in my life, not even when playing the soviets each 100 games or OST each 200 games or brits each 9999999 games, neither had problems with one. Well, I do only play teamgames where they are less oppressive
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6 Sep 2021, 15:56 PM
#18
Posts: 1594
It is though.
Literally being unable to build something is not, in fact, the same as choosing not to build something. If building tier 1 locked out tier 2 then you might have a point, but there is nothing physically preventing you from having both a ZIS and a squad of penals.
6 Sep 2021, 16:33 PM
#19
Posts: 5279
Literally being unable to build something is not, in fact, the same as choosing not to build something. If building tier 1 locked out tier 2 then you might have a point, but there is nothing physically preventing you from having both a ZIS and a squad of penals.
Aside from nuking your map control you are correct
#stalinwept
6 Sep 2021, 16:53 PM
#20
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Snipers were balanced when access to Cons Atnade wasn't that easy and cheap, when Ostheer early game wasn't so strong and Brit didn't have easy access to atnade.
Today it is easy, easier than anytime to build a sniper a screen it with your mainline infantry. Sniper lifetime on the field has expanded greatly because of that and the successive nerf don't really correct this state of the game.
My personal idea on the subject was to put a 90% life threshold on the sniper so it can only kill already wounded models but I don't have an opinion on the actual proposal.
Today it is easy, easier than anytime to build a sniper a screen it with your mainline infantry. Sniper lifetime on the field has expanded greatly because of that and the successive nerf don't really correct this state of the game.
My personal idea on the subject was to put a 90% life threshold on the sniper so it can only kill already wounded models but I don't have an opinion on the actual proposal.
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