Allied inf should also have dmg reduction to AT Satchel

Jump back to quoted post29 Aug 2021, 16:35 PMleithianz

If you don't trust me, go test yourself.

FYI, here is my test. After throwing shatchel, I ran into the kubel. Only cavalry rifle got 4 units killed.
While Axis had no units killed. (All auto-attack has been disabled by cheat mode)

+ Another test with allied unit as enemy confirmed that they do gets killed.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2021, 09:02 AMVipper

I did not question weather a enemy units take less damage or not. What I question was your interpenetration that axis infantry have a "secret" damage modifier which I am pretty sure the do not.

I suggest you do the same test and use axis infantry in the same side as satchel and I am pretty sure they will get as much damage as allied infantry.

This issue seem to have to do with the friendly fire modifiers and not with "axis" vs "allies" infantry.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2021, 09:29 AMleithianz

Have you even read the previous thread?

What's up with you do your test thingy? I already did all the tests, while you "claiming" there is no such thing when test shows otherwise.

I'm very sick of people demanding things instead of doing himself, but here is your tests that you
wanted.
...

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2021, 09:48 AMVipper

Third pls try to relax I have not insulted you in any way.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2021, 09:48 AMVipper

Fourth your original test seem to include Friend and Foe units from different factions that could explain the friendly fire damage modifiers.

Jump back to quoted post29 Aug 2021, 16:35 PMleithianz

+ Another test with allied unit as enemy confirmed that they do gets killed. So... I'm not sure the exact mechanism over satchel dmg over inf, but it is clear that it deals more than 80 to any allies inf. while it deals maximum of 68(according to the Korean stat site) to the Axis inf units.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2021, 09:53 AMleithianz

Please don't be assertive on the things that you are not sure of. Especially when OP already tested stuffs and posted the result. Unless you have counter-evidence to prove otherwise.





?

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2021, 11:17 AMVipper

I am not sure why insist on this, you have started a thread with the title: "Allied inf should also have dmg reduction to AT Satchel" implying that axis infantry have such a modifier.

My point is quite simple there a 95% chance that there is not such a modifier and if there is an issue it originated from the weapon and not the infantry.

Does that clarify what I have posted?

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2021, 11:31 AMleithianz

Not quite. You assertively stated that
"Axis infantry do not have damage reduction.
There is simply separate modifier for friendly fire."

Which was already countered even before you state it by test result. You have basically nothing but your experience toassertive backup your argument. Why bother to join in to the thread when you are uncertain?

Jump back to quoted post29 Aug 2021, 16:35 PMleithianz

... So... I'm not sure the exact mechanism over satchel dmg over inf, but it is clear that it deals more than 80 to any allies inf. while it deals maximum of 68(according to the Korean stat site) to the Axis inf units.
....

Jump back to quoted post29 Aug 2021, 14:33 PMleithianz

All axis inf. gets 20% dmg reduction from the explosion of Satchel Charge. So they don't OHK at full health.

Unless balance team is encouraging to do ISIS style suicide bombing, why not give Allies inf also get 20% dmg reduction from the Satchel Charge?

https://youtu.be/BVznJcaFlKI?t=680

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2021, 12:49 PMVipper

It seem you want to continue this on personal level so I will have to respond to you.

You might have find an inconsistency in damage.

According to your own post you are not sure the mechanism:


Yet both the title:
"Allied inf should also have dmg reduction to AT Satchel"


You are quite assertive yourself, so I suggest you focus on your own posts and their assertiveness and not mine.

In sort you have taking something that seem to be bug and posted in the balance section and in why that look more of axis/allied rant than an attempt to fix a bug, while ignoring the fact that axis do not even have access to such a weapon.

As for point it does not come from my "experience" but from the knowledge of game mechanics, I do not recall a single damage modifier that protects from a single specific weapon.

Now can you pls stop focusing on me and focus more on the issue?

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2021, 13:03 PMleithianz

I'm quite assertive to myself because I do have test that backs me up that all Axis infantry does not get killed while Allied inf units does.

And what do you had when you said
"Axis infantry do not have damage reduction.
There is simply separate modifier for friendly fire." after seeing test result?

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2021, 13:58 PMVipper

Now this indication that killing friendly infantry is intended and that issue vs okw infantry comes from the weapon and not from "secret axis modifier" as has been claimed in this thread.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2021, 14:35 PMleithianz

What are you talking about?

This is the exact "secret Axis modifier".

Whether the multiplier lies on to the unit or weapon itself is not irrelevant to the topic. It's just tomato to-ma-to. The important thing is that AT Satchel does deal 20% less to the Axis infantry while it can wipeout Allied infantry.

Link only stats W-Germany because it doesn't have enough space. I have confirmed with CoH2 tool that satchel indeed deals 20% less damage to Axis infantry.

Jump back to quoted post30 Aug 2021, 14:35 PMleithianz

What are you talking about?

This is the exact "secret Axis modifier".

Whether the multiplier lies on to the unit or weapon itself is not irrelevant to the topic. It's just tomato to-ma-to. The important thing is that AT Satchel does deal 20% less to the Axis infantry while it can wipeout Allied infantry.

Link only stats W-Germany because it doesn't have enough space. I have confirmed with CoH2 tool that satchel indeed deals 20% less damage to Axis infantry.

Jump back to quoted post31 Aug 2021, 06:37 AMMMX

interesting find! i remember this came up quite a while ago in the grenade AoE comparison thread, but i always thought the damage multiplier would apply to all units, not just axis. this should by all means get standardized to either dealing full damage or the reduced amount to all squads, regardless of faction.
btw, according to the stats tab you posted it it should be 20% of the original damage, not just 20% less. that at least would explain why it seemingly does almost zero damage to the axis units in your test.

Jump back to quoted post31 Aug 2021, 06:37 AMMMX

interesting find! i remember this came up quite a while ago in the grenade AoE comparison thread, but i always thought the damage multiplier would apply to all units, not just axis. this should by all means get standardized to either dealing full damage or the reduced amount to all squads, regardless of faction.
btw, according to the stats tab you posted it it should be 20% of the original damage, not just 20% less. that at least would explain why it seemingly does almost zero damage to the axis units in your test.

Jump back to quoted post31 Aug 2021, 12:53 PMVipper

Satchel are mess mostly due to bandaid solution that where used during creation.

On the other hand there is logic in their design.

Since AT satchels are an AT weapon they should not easily wipe enemy infantry thus the reduced damage.

On the other hand since the combine heavy damage and one shot engine damage they are considered "high risk high reward weapons" and thus can be punishing for the unit using it. The weapon fit the Penal role.

This is design decision and so No, friendly and enemy units should not take the same damage.

I personally do not like the design and I have suggested change but that is different story.


On the personal staff you keep bring up
Show Spoiler

Jump back to quoted post31 Aug 2021, 05:42 AMTickTack

dont bother interacting with vipper, dude.