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Elite Mod COH - Download and Changelog

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4 Dec 2013, 17:41 PM
#361
avatar of CombatMuffin

Posts: 642

Making the timer to recloak after firing an AoE effect would solve the whack-a-mole sniper blobbing.

Every sniper shot affecting the other nearby sniper's timer to recloak would leave very vulnerable snipers for bikes and jeeps (or anything).


Then all I have to do is get 3 snipers, and don't blob them. I still have 3 snipers, ready to counternsipe. Sure, its a little inconvenient, but it doesn't degrade the sniper spam.
4 Dec 2013, 18:47 PM
#362
avatar of 12ocky

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

Some thoughts on Langres in relation to wehr snipers. For me this has always been one of the main reasons why Langres is just extremely hard to play as US (One of the others being the US base is just a leisurely stroll away from your cutoff).


For me it's the green stone wall that needs to be back, that's the one that stopped Mg's being so powerful on Langres.
4 Dec 2013, 20:14 PM
#363
avatar of sluzbenik

Posts: 879

Out of the box suggestion...inspired by COH2, of all things.

Since we have target tables to play with, how about increasing the accuracy of the mortars vs. snipers?

This stops a double sniper blob cold, and would generally tone down sniper play and increase use of a little-used unit.

4 Dec 2013, 23:51 PM
#364
avatar of wehrman

Posts: 80

I think it's pretty clear, but in case it isn't, there's two discussions going on.

First is the CS 1v1. I kind of like it the way it is now. Although I think 75% chance to hit moving sniper is a good compromise to the current 50%. Unless you could implement the idea of giving the CS a higher number if it's his first shot in X amount of time. That rewards the baiting game.

For the sniper spam, I like some of the ideas and they seem to make sense.

1) longer decloak time with subsequent shots and also some sort of exponential decloak penalty for having snipers closely grouped.

2) slower movement while cloaked, maybe even while uncloaked to penalize for frequent retreats

3) negative zeal in groups

4) target tables vs. snipers increased (hopefully regulated when they're spammed/grouped together)

I think a combination of the above still makes sniper spam viable in extreme cases of vet 2 gren play, but gives it a higher risk/reward.

As for counters to T2 vetted gren spam, I rarely see any games anymore that go pure T2. T3 or even T4 comes into play at some point. In fact, I could make an argument that I'm seeing a lot of skpping of T2 and heavier T1. Some to do with playstyle, some to do with how OP dbl or trpl US sniper is.

But you could tweak vet 2 inf costs slightly, more fuel and or MP. Maybe a slight group negative zeal.

But really, bars are pretty much an even fight. And well microed M8 holds its own. Howitzer. Crocs. So how many counters do you need?
5 Dec 2013, 02:47 AM
#365
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742



Then all I have to do is get 3 snipers, and don't blob them. I still have 3 snipers, ready to counternsipe. Sure, its a little inconvenient, but it doesn't degrade the sniper spam.


With that in mind, a flanking sniper can render two of the three useless by being out of their range, since they cannot occupy such a small space.

And for those that choose to be lazy and blob, they will find their snipers far more vulnerable than if they had invested the proper amount of micro into positioning.
5 Dec 2013, 08:56 AM
#366
avatar of kafrion

Posts: 371

Out of the box suggestion...inspired by COH2, of all things.

Since we have target tables to play with, how about increasing the accuracy of the mortars vs. snipers?

This stops a double sniper blob cold, and would generally tone down sniper play and increase use of a little-used unit.



thats an idea i ve been thinking about as well , i am also of the opinion that range of mortars should be fixed and equal
5 Dec 2013, 11:19 AM
#367
avatar of FritzX

Posts: 68

Permanently Banned


thats an idea i ve been thinking about as well , i am also of the opinion that range of mortars should be fixed and equal


Are you joking? Who in the right mind will make a mortar to counter a sniper? And the range is not equal for a reason. US mortar deals more damage and the wehr one has longer range.
5 Dec 2013, 11:20 AM
#368
avatar of FritzX

Posts: 68

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Dec 2013, 11:19 AMFritzX


Are you joking? Who in the right mind will make a mortar to counter a sniper? And the range is not equal for a reason. US mortar deals more damage and the wehr one has longer range.
Its incredible how Coh2 can alter the mind of the player.
5 Dec 2013, 17:23 PM
#369
avatar of 12ocky

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

Ye personally I'd give mortar a small buff, but to make it a specialized sniper killer is a bit far fetched.
5 Dec 2013, 18:35 PM
#370
avatar of wehrman

Posts: 80

besides, 2 snipers, 1 volley, bye bye mortar.

There should be a close range magnifier of damage done to snipers by all types of infantry or vehicles, penalizing poor micro or at least making infantry rushes a bit more successful. I've seen many occasions where a puma is on top of a sniper and the sniper is still popping off shots only to get away. That should be an insta kill.

5 Dec 2013, 19:05 PM
#371
avatar of sluzbenik

Posts: 879

If the player with the mortar lets 2 snipers get near it, he deserves to lose it!

On second thought, I don't know...Unless there's a way to make barrage more lethal vs snipers you're not going to get attack commands on them the way you can in COH2 (well Ostheer vs Soviet snipers). I'm pretty sure the splash damage can't work that way though.

I don't know, I'd be happier if the infantry detection radius was just a tad bigger so you could rush the things more easily.


5 Dec 2013, 20:47 PM
#372
avatar of CombatMuffin

Posts: 642



With that in mind, a flanking sniper can render two of the three useless by being out of their range, since they cannot occupy such a small space.

And for those that choose to be lazy and blob, they will find their snipers far more vulnerable than if they had invested the proper amount of micro into positioning.


That would strongly depend on the map, not on the unit's balance (in my opinion). It needs to be tested in practice to see if it'd work as mentioned.

This is going to sound sort of stupid (coh2 kind) but isn't it possible to increase the mortar's squad size to 4 and just reduce the individual unit's hp so that it has the same squad total hp as a 3 man squad? It provides a sniper deterrent(3 shots like mg) while keeping small infantry fire damage the same. The only drawback is that the crew gains a little bit of extra defensive fire.

5 Dec 2013, 21:43 PM
#373
avatar of Oktarnash

Posts: 403



That would strongly depend on the map, not on the unit's balance (in my opinion). It needs to be tested in practice to see if it'd work as mentioned.

This is going to sound sort of stupid (coh2 kind) but isn't it possible to increase the mortar's squad size to 4 and just reduce the individual unit's hp so that it has the same squad total hp as a 3 man squad? It provides a sniper deterrent(3 shots like mg) while keeping small infantry fire damage the same. The only drawback is that the crew gains a little bit of extra defensive fire.


Yes then we can completely cross off grens form possibly remaning mortars.
5 Dec 2013, 22:16 PM
#374
avatar of FritzX

Posts: 68

Permanently Banned
Right now the problem with the mortars is that they die to easily, not to mention the suicide member, thats the real problem. Fix that, increase health and they should be fine.
5 Dec 2013, 23:03 PM
#375
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2

Changes to mortars would also change the mortar vs mortar gameplay, which is quite good right now (when it occurs). If there is an issue with them at all, it's a low level issue.
5 Dec 2013, 23:34 PM
#376
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2



This edition sees one of the biggest balance changes yet- snipers will now hit each other with 100% accuracy except on retreat.

Aimstrong (a proponent of the current system) and I verbally sparred for a very long time over this contentious issue, and there are most definitely arguments on both sides, however I believe this will be a positive change.

The crucial word being 'believe'.

I am not beyond reverting such a change IF IT IS PROVEN WITH REPLAYS that it is bad for the game. If necessary I will post the chat between Aim and I where we argue the biggest points on both sides (we agreed to disagree) rather than explaining them all here and now. However I urge you before you go all keyboard warrior on me to go and actually play the mod. Test it. Post replays. Even if you think you're shit, or if you think you're the shit, post replays. This is probably the biggest issue the mod tackles and if it works, it could be great for the game. However the opposite is true.

In other news, the Croc no longer comes with a free dozer. However it retains the ability to upgrade to both to dozer and 50 cal, and the dozer cost has been reduced. The main gun was buffed to bring it in line with the aim of making it a T2 counter.

Bombing run was changed slightly so that the same amount of damage is spread across more rockets. The real world implication of this is that damage will spread more evenly across the target zone instead of being focused on 4 random areas within the target zone.

Full changelog below:
5 Dec 2013, 23:41 PM
#377
avatar of CombatMuffin

Posts: 642


Yes then we can completely cross off grens form possibly remaning mortars.


That is VERY true, but you can still use volksgrenadiers for that (and by the time you are fielding mortars you still have at least one squad remaining). Not ideal though, you are right.

Is there any organized way of testing the mod with anyone? vCoH popularity is slightly rising because of the -beta, but it is hard enough finding games as it is, let alone test a mod.
5 Dec 2013, 23:45 PM
#378
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2

Not really, unfortunately. The best way is to just ask individual people if they want to play, but if you hop into the TFN steam chat channel and stay there for a little while others might swing by who want to play.

I'm aiming for January/February to play host to the first EM tournament so hopefully once I announce that (after Xmas) interest will spike and it will be easier to get games.
5 Dec 2013, 23:46 PM
#379
avatar of Oktarnash

Posts: 403



That is VERY true, but you can still use volksgrenadiers for that (and by the time you are fielding mortars you still have at least one squad remaining). Not ideal though, you are right.

Is there any organized way of testing the mod with anyone? vCoH popularity is slightly rising because of the -beta, but it is hard enough finding games as it is, let alone test a mod.

with this update I am willing to play whenever someone asks me to, just send me a steam invite and i will play :D
6 Dec 2013, 01:43 AM
#380
avatar of Kolaris

Posts: 308 | Subs: 1

Same, hit up this (incredibly rusty) vCoH player if you want a game
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