Elite Mod COH - Download and Changelog

Great, great work guys!
Tommy might I make one suggestion. I was thinking it would be good to update the first post with all the changelogs for every version so they are all in one place and people can see them easily and they don't have to go thru all the posts in this topic. I think it would help the people who aren't involved in this topic from the start.

I try to keep the OP updated but if nothing else, the changelog attached to each download is always current.

You can take that fix out from the changelog, the coaxial gun(coaxial is one that is on the hull) doesn't even exist on the Hellcat.

Ugh lolled, makes one wonder why they made that weapon.

Just an idea for the jeep/bike: is it possible to reduce the incoming damage (damage taken or something) ?
The reasoning is that a jeep hunting a sniper will take a lot of fire from different angles, even before getting to the sniper. And a dead jeep is giving a salvageable wreck to wehr... . Just my two cents.

Ugh lolled, makes one wonder why they made that weapon.

I think they didn't have time to finish animating a coaxial gun on the Hellcat model, I tried to add a coaxial, but I it didn't get to work properly (animation: no recoil, no sound, just tracers pop out of thin air)

Just an idea for the jeep/bike: is it possible to reduce the incoming damage (damage taken or something) ?
The reasoning is that a jeep hunting a sniper will take a lot of fire from different angles, even before getting to the sniper. And a dead jeep is giving a salvageable wreck to wehr... . Just my two cents.

That would make the jeep even more annoying to kill in the beggining of the game, and jeep vs bike battles would be even more towards the jeep.

Yeah jeep is in a really really good place right now. Bike hmm, still the same. But the bike is a very cheap unit so it'd be dumb to put unnecessary power onto it. It's very vulnerable true, but it loses some of that vulnerability with veterancy and it has a pretty good gun.

changelog:

- Croc now has a 50 cal upgrade for 75mu""
- Croc now already comes with bulldozer equipped (intentional?, does it still have the HP bonus?)
- Hellcat coaxial mg accuracy vs snipers fixed from 6.5 to 0.65""
- Kolaris AI tweaks (see here)

Could the penalties to cloaking that snipers receive from taking a shot be changed into an AoE effect? Hence, a sniper right next to a firing sniper would still be considered to have taken a shot (and momentarily uncloaked as well.)

And if that first sniper then takes a shot, both are further penalized from re-cloaking in a timely fashion to avoid a counter snipe?

croc changes

Yeah it's intentional. My thinking is that the Croc, as it stands, is only for AI purposes. However in a real game/competetive scenario, any player is going to go for a regular M4 instead because the M4 does both AI and AT, and does the AI part arguably better than the croc anyway. So, I'm trying to buff the croc sufficiently that it becomes better than an M4 at AI to the extent where a player will be able to choose it as a viable choice if they are facing a heavy T2 grenspam/paks. I wanted originally to just leave the croc as-is and give it the option to upgrade to the 50 cal, but then realised that that would mean a player using the croc would then be pressured into investing 150mu into making it a worthwhile purchase, which in a real scenario is probably too much of a gamble. So now the dozer is free (yes with the hp upgrade) and the 50 cal is an optional upgrade. This should now make the Croc sufficiently good enough at anti-infantry that it becomes a real viable choice when facing a mainly infantry army.

I watched the 3 or 4 games on your channel, Tommy.

Here's my impressions.

Jeep yes needs to go back. I think increase damage modifier against sniper (and same for bike). Is there anyway to fix retreat bug on mgs and mortars, etc that can't set up or can't retreat because the gun holder gets killed?

Strafe was ok. The first strafe against you on Langres, you had 2 spread out units in yellow cover. You shouldn't take big damage in a case like that. The last one on semois, yeah, you probably should have taken another death or two, but you got to leave some rng in it.

Strafe can't be an automatic wreck your opponent because there's no warning and no friendly fire effect. If you increase the damage, then you have to add a longer delay from sound to effect or at least add in friendly fire.

In the 2 games someone went dbl sniper, it was really only the last game where you saw the typical abuse. For instance in that last semois game, 2 unsupported snipers are causing multiple half squad volks and grens to retreat. That's the main issue because of wehr smaller unit size.

I liked the idea of group negative zeal, but you guys never fully tested that out. If the main issue is snipers, I think you need to really spam them, forget about who wins the game, just to test ways to counter.

I also like the idea of the officer and maybe KCH becoming more of a sniper counter. Maybe put KCH in T3 (so they can come out quicker) and make them less efficient against inf until fully vetted, but more efficient against snipers right out of the gate.

I would have made every upgrade 50 munitions anyways, the machine gun alone sometimes feels expensive on a Sherman.

In a beta version prior to 2.602 there was a Croc HP buff to 700HP (so with dozer 770Hp), but they reverted that change in favor of a +5 range buff. I have no clue why they reverted it because the Croc was working just fine.

What I would do is:
* Sherman Crocodile health increased from 636hp to 700hp
* Sherman Crodocile can now upgrade the M2HB machine gun
* Sherman M2HB machine gun upgrade cost from 75m to 50m
* Sherman bulldozer cost from 75m to 50m
* Sherman crab mine flail cost reduced from 75muni to 50muni
* Sherman crab mine flail speed penalty from 0.5x to 0.6x (This last change, could also be used on a lowered bulldozer; but i'm not sure what the speed penalty is on that one)
* Hellcat MG upgrade cost from 75m to 50m


So what are the differences between my version and yours:

Fully upgraded Sherman:
My version has 70HP more but costs 25 muntions more compared to yours

Sherman + 50 cal upgrade:
My version is 25 munitions cheaper but does not have a bulldozer to plow through stuff.

Non upgraded Sherman and Sherman + Bulldozer:
Yours comes with a bulldozer from scratch.
I have some issues with this, like when the Wehr builds tank traps at his base entrance for example, to stop the tank rush or to cover of a flank and channel vehicles into his Pak; you will have zero problems dealing with this because you just plow right through them at no cost.
In my version at least you have the upgrade time and cost for a bulldozer (and hp buff). And there is the tactical choice to upgrade or not, so there's a bit more gameplay about it.
(possible scenario: AmipolizeiFunk in SNF: "OOH What a briliant move to upgrade the bulldozer, plow straight through those hedges and decrew the Flak88 instantly.")
Another option is to have 700 base hp on Sherman but no buff on Bulldozer anymore but you lower the cost to ~25munitions.

The Croc wasn't working fine when it did less AI damage than the Sherman in all situations. The health buff was reverted not only in favor of the +5 range but also the minimum damage buff.

I'm not sold on the Bulldozer or .50 Cal because it's not addressing the main issue - the Flamethrower is less effective Anti-Infantry than the Sherman, and the Sherman can handle AV/AT as well.

Don't forget if you want to reduce the 50 cal upgrades on the sherman and the croc why not the m18

I watched the 3 or 4 games on your channel, Tommy.

Here's my impressions.

Jeep yes needs to go back. I think increase damage modifier against sniper (and same for bike). Is there anyway to fix retreat bug on mgs and mortars, etc that can't set up or can't retreat because the gun holder gets killed?

Strafe was ok. The first strafe against you on Langres, you had 2 spread out units in yellow cover. You shouldn't take big damage in a case like that. The last one on semois, yeah, you probably should have taken another death or two, but you got to leave some rng in it.

Strafe can't be an automatic wreck your opponent because there's no warning and no friendly fire effect. If you increase the damage, then you have to add a longer delay from sound to effect or at least add in friendly fire.

In the 2 games someone went dbl sniper, it was really only the last game where you saw the typical abuse. For instance in that last semois game, 2 unsupported snipers are causing multiple half squad volks and grens to retreat. That's the main issue because of wehr smaller unit size.

I liked the idea of group negative zeal, but you guys never fully tested that out. If the main issue is snipers, I think you need to really spam them, forget about who wins the game, just to test ways to counter.

I also like the idea of the officer and maybe KCH becoming more of a sniper counter. Maybe put KCH in T3 (so they can come out quicker) and make them less efficient against inf until fully vetted, but more efficient against snipers right out of the gate.

* No it's in a good place right now. It never did overwhelmingly damage in fights, or was dominating them. If they were really that good more jeeps would be build and they would dominate.
* Mortars, I don't think so, they didn't even fix it in COH2. But they increased the squad size. That's a lazy fix we could implement aswell.
They also might need a tiny buff damagewise or slight increase in Aoe.

* Strafe probably got an unintentional nerf, this has been adressed.

* Doubles snipers are indeed still strong vs single elite armor squads. Would like too see the impact of higher upkeep costs. But even though I had double snipers, Tommy was still able to push and overwhelm me.

* Agreed, same with jeeps and other units should be done to test them.

* Kch I don't think T3 is a good idea, they are the top infantry of the wehrmacht. But they could use some help in some areas.

* Officer yea, It survives more than one shot, it has reveal radius (i think), just needs it high crit chance back vs snipers I think.

why did relic implement, the change where elite armour units always get sniped on retreat ?

Don't forget if you want to reduce the 50 cal upgrades on the sherman and the croc why not the m18

Whoops, yup good catch, forgot to copy paste that one. (:

why did relic implement, the change where elite armour units always get sniped on retreat ?

Because to have some counters to the elite armor. Elite armor reduces damage vs bullet weapons by 25% or by 43.75% depending on which weapon.
But it has 18% increased damage taken from flames, take a bit more suppression from heavy mg's and snipers become more accurate. Relic did this to have some forms of counterplay vs Elite armor. And it's a tactical tradeoff, it makes people think wether they really want to get Vet 2 or not?
*Up against strafe and BAR rifleman? Better get Elite armor.
*Up against rifles with grenade + flamer engie spam + sniper support? better not get elite armor because the benefits are small and the risks are high.

I think the Stuh needs to be reworked a bit, it shoots and is the most rng thing in coh 1 right now, maybe increasing the AOE and decreasing the damage a bit, kinda weird how it works right now, it shoots and sometimes does frack all damage.

snip

But people pretty much always buy the dozer on the croc by default. If they can afford it, it gets upgraded the moment it rolls out the TD, same with the 50 cal on the Sherman- it's a straight up HP buff which protects your investment, so there's really no reason not to do it.

In the scenario where your opponent has build TT's, I don't think it's a bad thing that the croc comes out ready to counter it. Now Crocs are pointedly made for crushing defensive, infantry based positions. The fact is, in current retail, anyone who gets a croc in a tournament game is basically trolling; it's like getting an officer- yeah, they're fun units and all, but there's something else which will do the same job more cost-effectively, so by building one you've probably already won (unless you get cocky and fuck up).

The other alternative as Kolaris suggested is a straight up buff to the flamethrower, which would also accomplish what I'm trying to get at.

wherman: nobody is suggesting buffing strafe, it's just that in those games on my stream, strafe was unintentionally borked and has since been reverted in the latest build (but cannot be used in base sectors). It's fine now.

I think the Stuh needs to be reworked a bit, it shoots and is the most rng thing in coh 1 right now, maybe increasing the AOE and decreasing the damage a bit, kinda weird how it works right now, it shoots and sometimes does frack all damage.

Wouldn't increasing the AoE and reducing the damage just make the problem worse?

It would be nice to get the StuH being a bit more reliable though, I agree. I will work on that for the next patch, as well as buffing its damage against buildings a little (I over-nerfed it slightly, but it's still going to be lower than retail where it's just pants-on-head retarded).

Why has the Croc been 110 fuel all this time, btw? Whats the reaosning behind it? Sure, it costs less manpower than a sherman, but when talking vehicles its fuel that's crucial.

I'm not saying nerfing the cost is the better, but it is a viable alternative if the HP/Dozer or Flamethrower Buff aren't enough.

This sounds promising. Will give it a shot. Is it possible to play automatch with this? (With other people running the mod obviously)

Also, THIS:

Problem: Snipers are too dominating.
Solutions:
- Increase reload
- Change cloak mechanic (passive cloak like in CoH2)
- Buff the counters ie Jeep/bike

The implementation of this would make 2v2 more viable again. Great initiative guys, keep it up!