Elite Mod COH - Download and Changelog

Gotta fix some of the OF stuff before Relic would consider any of this I would guess.

If Relic would consider making a balance patch ... then ye sure.

The only clear no brainer change I see is the Staghound MG.
Other than that, OF needs so much fixing and rebalancing .. tweaking here and there. It's a major challenge which is not worth the effort if there is no patch coming from Relic.
Lets just wait for tournament on how popular (vcoh) Elite Mod gets first ...

Well there are dozens of bugs which when fixed, can be perceived as buffs or nerfs and have a significant side effect on balance. Where would one draw the line between what is "too much"?
Maybe Tommy's intro to the new contets of the next update could be misinterpreted. Hearing "New *this* and redesined *that*" can strike fear into the conservative ones.

My concern was that it sounded like a redesign rather than a fix.

pewpewpew

Isn't the stuh already pretty op ? (mixed heavy T1/T2) to inf vet2 to tank vet3 stuh to tigers, then blitz ammo wtv you want)

pewpewpew

Isn't the stuh already pretty op ? (mixed heavy T1/T2) to inf vet2 to tank vet3 stuh to tigers, then blitz ammo wtv you want)

I mean stuhs are random as fuck, just make them normal.

Idd, in my version the damage on the edges is lowered significantly, but it almost always hits (and kills at least a guy).

Atm, it's very random. It can hit and kill all or miss all.

Should be applied to every tank then..

If I remember well, tanks shoot random models in an infantry squad. I don't get why stuh should be able to aim the middle of the squad while a higher tier tank like pershing or tiger couldn't.

More than that, many times squad ai gets crazy after being aimed down by a stuh, which make most of the troop jump around and pretty much giving the stuh another free shoot on them.

Not every shot hits, but accuracy increased drastically.

And I think u missed the point.
Even though a "missed roll" hit sometimes, it does no damage cause it technically misses. But when it actually rolls a hit in the middle of the squad it will go kaboom and might whipe out the entire squad.

Should be applied to every tank then..

Tank guns, in general, are actually (quite a bit) more accurate then STUH. So that point is pretty invalid.

I don't understand why they changed the stuh42. The way it worked 6 years ago was perfect, without that ridiculous random kaboom.
Although is hard to believe the damage in coh 1.0 was more consistent than is now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3tFHPxk83Y

There are a number of tweaks in this patch, have a read- but most importantly, go and play and see what you think!

First post updated with the full and complete changelog (also found in the download file).

changelog:
Show Spoiler

Without actually having played it:

Why make Wehr t4 cheaper? I don't really see a reason for that except for the sake of it. It's not as if Wehr t4 would lack something in the current retail version.

Apart from that it looks certainly inteeresting overall.

Something else: I think you should consider raising Airborne mp reinforce cost more, but decrease their manpower upkeep instead. Makes loosing men more punishing to airborne spammers but does not affect using single squads combined with riflemen.

From what I played from the previous version (probably around 10+ games, so not all that many) the sniper change seemed really good, but I guess that's just personal opinion.

Other changes seem good I guess your idea of the officer being in T3 HQ means escalate to T3/T4 -> build officer at HQ and sturm armory/panzer command with pios -> no lost production timing in the SA/PC?

I dislike buffing ftfl for long range but I guess that change is pretty minimal.

Without actually having played it:

Why make Wehr t4 cheaper? I don't really see a reason for that except for the sake of it. It's not as if Wehr t4 would lack something in the current retail version.

Wher T4 doesn't get much of a look-in these days due in large part to the cost. 99% of games go as far as T3 then stop there because it's more economical to keep producing Stugs and Pumas than go for Panthers and Ostwinds. This change just makes T4 a bit more viable.

From what I played from the previous version (probably around 10+ games, so not all that many) the sniper change seemed really good, but I guess that's just personal opinion.

Other changes seem good I guess your idea of the officer being in T3 HQ means escalate to T3/T4 -> build officer at HQ and sturm armory/panzer command with pios -> no lost production timing in the SA/PC?

I dislike buffing ftfl for long range but I guess that change is pretty minimal.

The sniper revert was for a couple of reasons.
1. It placed more emphasis on the countersnipe, the opposite of what I wanted. Ideally I'd like there to be alternative means of killing a sniper but if the CS always hits then it becomes the de facto counter and people won't bother using any of the other methods that have become a bit more viable in Elite Mod (ie jeeps/bikes)

2. Heroic crits on retreat became, in my experience, too much of a 'get out of jail free' which meant that you weren't rewarded for forcing a sniper to retreat, then catching it with a sniper of your own

Officer change is for those reasons yeah. I was going to give FTFL a straight up debuff but thought that this way seemed a bit more colourful in terms of rewarding the US player for fielding specific counters rather than simply trying to 'brute force' a win using the same tactics they'd use if FTFL wasn't in play.

Something else: I think you should consider raising Airborne mp reinforce cost more, but decrease their manpower upkeep instead. Makes loosing men more punishing to airborne spammers but does not affect using single squads combined with riflemen.

The thing is, they already have the highest reinforce modifiers along with Rangers. And quite frankly those modifiers are out of proportion. Increasing reinforce costs in general puts more power on snipers.

US army uses high upkeep costs on high value units (and especially with the ones with the good veterancy).

The army that uses high reinforce costs and lower upkeep costs is the PE, and we all know how flawed the design of it is. => Do well the first few minutes, get tons of manpower. => Lose one fight at start, lose game. You think that's good game design?

So basically your scenario would be: hell I just spam Airborne Squads until my force is bigger than his and I rape him. Before my spam is complete I will just not use my squads risking to lose 50mp per guy.
Upkeep is a great way of keeping unit spam (and cost efficiency in check.

Reinforce costs used to be much lower back in the day, but people spammed those forces with free fire up and destroyed everything with their blobs. They were considered OP because easy to use and very effective. Then they got a series of nerfs, especially with the release of OF (due to these units being very effective vs PE). Zooks / Recoilles got some nerfs vs vehicles etc ...
To use these squads nowadays in 1v1 vanilla matchup, it's just suicide. You manpower starve yourself to death. Airborne still does good job vs tanks as a support weapon.

I'm certain that reinforce cost decrease won't make the unit suddenly OP in vCoh matchup.


Tl;dr
I'm right, this guy idea is a bit flawed.
Reinforce cost decrease won't make Airborne OP in vCoh matchup.

I think if you're looking to run a tournament you should be reverting changes not making a bunch more. But, it's your tournament, best of luck and I hope there's a good turnout.

/computerstillfried

Well people aren't really playing it without the context of a tournament, so at least this way I get to test the most amount of changes in the time.

I don't understand why they changed the stuh42. The way it worked 6 years ago was perfect, without that ridiculous random kaboom.
Although is hard to believe the damage in coh 1.0 was more consistent than is now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3tFHPxk83Y

Sadly enough they got tons things right at the start which they changed after. (Tiger ace, veterancy icons, Croc Sherman was maybe a bit much? but they nerfed it to useless, Stuh42).

+STUH projectile looks a lot better, at least it didn't have tendency to try shoot over hedges it seems.

you should be reverting changes

Say whut?

Sadly enough they got tons things right at the start which they changed after. (Tiger ace, veterancy icons, Croc Sherman was maybe a bit much? but they nerfed it to useless, Stuh42).

+STUH projectile looks a lot better, at least it didn't have tendency to try shoot over hedges it seems.

Imo croc is still uber rape against Wehr t2 strategies that involve vetting up infantry. The range buff from vet 2 really makes them killing machines.

@ reinforce cost from Airbornes:
That's a 3v3++ problem, not 1v1, and in 3v3 or larger you're much more likely to invest into the manpower supply yard techs which negate airborne upkeep to less than riflemen levels (from 17,5mp/squad to something around ~7mp afaik). Also, rangers can't be used earlygame, so they won't affect early game fights anyways.

Your argument about comparing US reinforce to PE is flawed. PE can't get own snipers, so they're very vulnerable to US snipers in general. Also, pgrens scale from super weak to superstrong with 10k different upgrades. USA only needs 3.

So, overall having high upkeep benefits 1-unit spam in teamgames. On top of that airbornes are spammed there because they give easy 100% penetration against wehrmacht heavies, which otherwise could only be countered by AT guns. Also, due to lag in 4v4 it's much easier to loose riflemen to arty/inf charges/whatever because they're way more squishy than Airborne/rangers and often more lag is present.

Tournament announcement is up folks!

http://www.coh2.org/news/12998/elite-mod-company-of-heroes-1v1-tournament