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OKW and USF doesn't get alot of love in the last patch

27 Jun 2021, 16:48 PM
#21
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 16:43 PMOlfin


I think you still don't understand the post or you just love to spam non sense , I won't bother myself to discuss u, but I will re explain this for the others who may read this, this post is about adding more fun and units to factions without breaking the balance, so if you couldn't understand what fun means this post is not made for u.

I perfectly understand your OP.

Others got new toys, OKW didn't because they got new toys last time and now you're jealous of others new toys, coming up with ideas and "reasons" why you also should get new toys.

Like it or not, OKW has most balanced and varied doctrinal selection of all factions.
Again, they didn't got much, because they don't need much.

Adding new stuff for the sake of adding new stuff was NOT the goal of that patch.
27 Jun 2021, 16:52 PM
#22
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 15:23 PMOlfin


So the game for you is 200 player only ? and even in this, they are not over performing and they are below 50% winrate while some other factions are above 50% winrate, now lets look to their overall performance not just top 200

https://coh2stats.com/stats/month/1617235200/1v1/wermacht?statsSource=all


Some clarification.

The stats gathered are MOSTLY from top200 even when filtering by all. Because it gathers stats only by those who have at least 1 rank in top200 in any mode but people tend to play one specific mode mostly.

For 1v1 it's better to use the top200 only, because it's the only mode which has a relevant sample size (specially considering the % of matches) on which you can gather information when BOTH players are at least top200.

Also depending which month you look at, stats differ. I took the last 3 months worth of stats and this is what i got:

Brits: 44.74%

SU: 51.82%

USF: 49.39%

OH: 52.02%

OKW: 48.30%

27 Jun 2021, 17:00 PM
#23
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

And I don't see how changing Panzer Commander for a 105mm barrage offmap would have made Grand Offensive OP

Should be obvious that's a no go. There's not a single heavy tank commander that also has an offmap that is powerful enough to kill howitzers or defensive positions, for a good reason. It's also exactly why Jaeger Armor and the ISU commanders just got nerfed for exactly the same reasons. The same reason there isn't an IS-2 commander with Guards. Etc. Commanders shouldn't be overly versatile, otherwise they just end up being super meta like Jaeger Armor.


What's exactly meant to "balance out" in EFA top picks like Spearhead Doctrine or the new Soviet Shock Army? Nothing, all slots are equally important and great useful abilities.

Spearhead has the mortar halftrack that is pretty situational, and Shock Army was deliberately given Armored Vehicle Detection (replacing the initial pick of Recon Overflight) to help balance out its more powerful abilities. The ISU commanders and Jeager Armor were treated the same way recently. Balancing out powerful abilities with less powerful ones is not exclusive to WFA.
27 Jun 2021, 17:01 PM
#24
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167



Some clarification.

The stats gathered are MOSTLY from top200 even when filtering by all. Because it gathers stats only by those who have at least 1 rank in top200 in any mode but people tend to play one specific mode mostly.

For 1v1 it's better to use the top200 only, because it's the only mode which has a relevant sample size (specially considering the % of matches) on which you can gather information when BOTH players are at least top200.

Also depending which month you look at, stats differ. I took the last 3 months worth of stats and this is what i got:

Brits: 44.74%

SU: 51.82%

USF: 49.39%

OH: 52.02%

OKW: 48.30%



Thanks for the clarification.

Some people should see this 😅.
27 Jun 2021, 17:06 PM
#25
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658



They didn't need anything big. Unlike UKF which was doing bad as a faction across multiple modes and the EFA half of whose commanders were either boring copy pastas of each other with minor alterations or straight up useless.


Well maybe you shouldn't have nerfed UKF in every single patch without giving them something meaningful in return to maintain useful.

For example "5 man Infantry Sections are OP so lets nerf them into the ground"

ok but will the Vickers be good then? Ah Nope?

Faction is now unplayable. You guys can't just keep taking things each patch and then act surprised that UKF is now the worst faction in the game.

Fixing Commanders mean nothing if the CORE ARMY sucks which also applies to USF and the Easy 8 commander.


27 Jun 2021, 17:36 PM
#26
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660


Should be obvious that's a no go. There's not a single heavy tank commander that also has an offmap that is powerful enough to kill howitzers or defensive positions, for a good reason. It's also exactly why Jaeger Armor and the ISU commanders just got nerfed for exactly the same reasons. Commanders shouldn't be overly versatile, otherwise they just end up being super meta like Jaeger Armor.

Fair enough even tho I think Fragmentation Run is even more versatile. You could replace Panzer Commander with even light artillery barrage, which doesn't destroy any defensive position, but doesn't require you to use a Panzer IV, is more reliable even if more expensive and doesn't punish you for stalling for a Tiger

Spearhead has the mortar halftrack that is pretty situational, and Shock Army was deliberately given Armored Vehicle Detection (replacing the initial pick of Recon Overflight) to help balance out its more powerful abilities. The ISU commanders and Jeager Armor were treated the same way recently, as well as some other EFA commanders this patch. Balancing out powerful abilities with less powerful ones is not exclusive to WFA.

Both the mortar ht and armor vehicle detection aren't "wasted slots". An indirect fire platform and a global recon ability are far better than a single paid incendiary barrage for a single tier 1 locked indirect fire unit.
27 Jun 2021, 17:36 PM
#27
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 13:52 PMKatitof
OKW itself has highest winrates in most game modes the gamemodes that I cherry picked


fixed that for you


Top 200 for May:

OKW only has the highest WR in 4 vs 4, in every other Mode they are (!)below(!) 50%

Top 200 Week 1 of June

OKW only has the highest WR in 4 vs 4, in every other Mode they are below 50%

Top 200 Week 2 of June

in every other Mode they are below 50% (in 3 vs 3 even at 28.6%) except for 4 vs 4 where they have a 51.8% WR

Top 200 Week 3 of June

OKW below 50% in 3 vs 3 (26.9%) and 2 vs 2 except for 4 vs 4 and 1 vs 1. In both 1 vs 1 and 4 vs 4 they do not have the highest WR




27 Jun 2021, 17:37 PM
#28
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



Well maybe you shouldn't have nerfed UKF in every single patch without giving them something meaningful in return to maintain useful.

For example "5 man Infantry Sections are OP so lets nerf them into the ground"

ok but will the Vickers be good then? Ah Nope?

Faction is now unplayable. You guys can't just keep taking things each patch and then act surprised that UKF is now the worst faction in the game.

Fixing Commanders mean nothing if the CORE ARMY sucks which also applies to USF and the Easy 8 commander.



Relic restrictions to the balance team are probably the true responsible for 5 men IS nerf outcome
Pip
27 Jun 2021, 17:53 PM
#29
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



Some clarification.

The stats gathered are MOSTLY from top200 even when filtering by all. Because it gathers stats only by those who have at least 1 rank in top200 in any mode but people tend to play one specific mode mostly.

For 1v1 it's better to use the top200 only, because it's the only mode which has a relevant sample size (specially considering the % of matches) on which you can gather information when BOTH players are at least top200.

Also depending which month you look at, stats differ. I took the last 3 months worth of stats and this is what i got:

Brits: 44.74%

SU: 51.82%

USF: 49.39%

OH: 52.02%

OKW: 48.30%



Arguably, even if they were "purely" top 200 games, that's still a bit too broad of a net to cast, in terms of skill.

A little unavoidable though, given the game's population.
27 Jun 2021, 18:18 PM
#30
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 17:01 PMOlfin


Thanks for the clarification.

Some people should see this 😅.

Some people should understand this....
Less then 5% deviation from 50% means faction -IS- balanced.

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 17:53 PMPip


Arguably, even if they were "purely" top 200 games, that's still a bit too broad of a net to cast, in terms of skill.

A little unavoidable though, given the game's population.

Its really not.
Its exactly how healthy balance should look like(except for underperforming brits).

Did all you people pretended to be sick or run from school when statistical analysis was being served on lectures?
Differences between 4 of 5 factions are within error margin, given obviously not all players have equal skill.

You'll never see perfect 50% in a game with less then 7 digit population and anyone who knows a single shit about statistics will tell you that that 5% deviation is perfectly fine balance.

If you don't believe me, get a coin and start tossing it.
Tell me what results you've got fter 20 tosses and then after 200.
27 Jun 2021, 18:38 PM
#31
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 956

Well fixed Sturmtiger is actively destroying people's keyboards. So at least OKW have that going for them.

It is, eh? Interesting, could have really done with that knowledge last game vs the Soviet conscript and weapons team tide. Very good to know. B-) What exactly about the slower projectile makes it so lethal? People really walk into the new shell? I tried it out but came under the impression that it was still very easily dodged (even if it doesn't collide with a twig anymore). Maybe I'm missing something....
Pip
27 Jun 2021, 18:47 PM
#32
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 18:18 PMKatitof

Some people should understand this....
Less then 5% deviation from 50% means faction -IS- balanced.


Its really not.
Its exactly how healthy balance should look like(except for underperforming brits).

Did all you people pretended to be sick or run from school when statistical analysis was being served on lectures?
Differences between 4 of 5 factions are within error margin, given obviously not all players have equal skill.

You'll never see perfect 50% in a game with less then 7 digit population and anyone who knows a single shit about statistics will tell you that that 5% deviation is perfectly fine balance.

If you don't believe me, get a coin and start tossing it.
Tell me what results you've got fter 20 tosses and then after 200.


How exactly have you arrived at the specific figure of 5% as the acceptable margin of error? I mean, other than the fact it supports your argument, obviously.
27 Jun 2021, 18:58 PM
#33
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 18:47 PMPip


How exactly have you arrived at the specific figure of 5% as the acceptable margin of error? I mean, other than the fact it supports your argument, obviously.

1) I paid attention during collage, my masters degree thesis was all about statistics.
2) Actual years of job experience as a fucking game designer(that's why it pisses me off when a buffoon like vippers says bs like "from design perspective" while having no slightest idea how things actually work).
27 Jun 2021, 19:25 PM
#34
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 18:58 PMKatitof

1) I paid attention during collage, my masters degree thesis was all about statistics.
2) Actual years of job experience as a fucking game designer(that's why it pisses me off when a buffoon like vippers says bs like "from design perspective" while having no slightest idea how things actually work).




I assume that this will get supported by proofs just as much as your claims that you "do actually play the game"?




27 Jun 2021, 19:34 PM
#35
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8





I assume that this will get supported by proofs just as much as your claims that you "do actually play the game"?




Unless you have a valid job offer that beats my current one in germany or UK, I'm not giving you my linkedin.
Pip
27 Jun 2021, 19:36 PM
#36
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 18:58 PMKatitof

1) I paid attention during collage, my masters degree thesis was all about statistics.


Was it? Would you like to link it?

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 18:58 PMKatitof

2) Actual years of job experience as a fucking game designer(that's why it pisses me off when a buffoon like vippers says bs like "from design perspective" while having no slightest idea how things actually work).


"Game Designer" is kind of a vague job description.

27 Jun 2021, 19:37 PM
#37
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 19:34 PMKatitof


Unless you have a valid job offer that beats my current one in germany or UK, I'm not giving you my linkedin.


I assume your "real" CoH2 playercard is just as confidential to you?
27 Jun 2021, 19:40 PM
#38
avatar of Olfin

Posts: 167





I assume that this will get supported by proofs just as much as your claims that you "do actually play the game"?




Yeah, anything he says is a fact and we should believe it, he got master degree and didn't learn how to speak respectfully, and finally he keep mentioning me to convince me that the factions are balanced while I never complaint about that and the only thing I said is that OKW and USF deserve to get some fresh new units like the other factions lol.
27 Jun 2021, 19:57 PM
#39
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Jun 2021, 19:36 PMPip


Was it? Would you like to link it?



"Game Designer" is kind of a vague job description.



Interested to know which "collage" he did attend too, and which job offer he received in the UK given his knowledge of the english language
27 Jun 2021, 20:03 PM
#40
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

OKW was megabuffed this patch. If you knew how to play the faction, one look in the patch notes would have been enough.
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