OKW and USF doesn't get alot of love in the last patch

Hi everyone, first of all I want to thank the balance teams for their great work, and I also want to mention that this is not a complaint about balance itself.

I am very sad because OKW and USF doesn't get any new things just adjustment to old abilities and units, while other factions got alot of new cool and interesting units, for example Ostheer got new officer and new cool forward building which can repair,buff near tanks and enable you to build repair bunkers, while Soviet got new supply truck and bunkers and of course British got the new cool Raid section, in the other hand OKW and USF doesn't receive anything new and their was a great opportunity to add new units for them. and I will talk about some of the units that could be added for OKW in my opinion, because it is the faction that I play the most.

1- for the fortification commander they could add new engineer units which is cheaper with the same skin as Sturms(similar to what they did with raid section) but weaker and they could make it different than pioneer, just give them some different abilities and this will work alot with this commander because it depends alot on engineers.

2- Sturm officer for Special operation doctrine could be easily replaced with other officer with different name and abilities but similar skin, similar to what they did with the Ostheer new Luftwaffe Field officer.

3- there was some un used assets and abilities like SdKfz 251 with open roof and hull down assets for OKW tanks, they could add any of that.

4- what other units do you think could be added?

So what do you think about this? and is their any future patch where OKW and USF can get some love and new units and abilities?

note: maybe I said wrong names for some units and abilities, but I think they are clear any way.

Well fixed Sturmtiger is actively destroying people's keyboards. So at least OKW have that going for them.

Not really sure what you expected here. OKW commander selection already got love and new things and OKW itself has highest winrates in most game modes, you'd have to live under a rock to not see OKW not getting as much as others if anything.

USF and OKW commander reworks are definetly the weakest

USF and OKW commander reworks are definetly the weakest

OKW had the healthiest commander variety out of all factions and only needed minor tuning.
USF isn't far behind in terms of viability for all commanders (across different modes), although it has an inherent popularity problem with the Priest/Calliope and Airborne commanders because those fix holes in the stock line-up that can not be easily filled in otherwise.

They didn't need anything big. Unlike UKF which was doing bad as a faction across multiple modes and the EFA half of whose commanders were either boring copy pastas of each other with minor alterations or straight up useless.

Not really sure what you expected here. OKW commander selection already got love and new things and OKW itself has highest winrates in most game modes, you'd have to live under a rock to not see OKW not getting as much as others if anything.

Actually, you didn't get the reason of the post, I am not complaining about balance, I think they are doing great in this regard, but many factions got new units and there was a good opportunity to add new units for OKW without breaking the balance.

Actually, you didn't get the reason of the post, I am not complaining about balance, I think they are doing great in this regard, but many factions got new units and their was a good opportunities to add new units for OKW without breaking the balance.

And OKW does not lack anything after previous commander patch that introduced new units and abilities to them.

They got least, because they were strongest and lacked least.

OKW had the healthiest commander variety out of all factions and only needed minor tuning.
USF isn't far behind in terms of viability for all commanders (across different modes), although it has an inherent popularity problem with the Priest/Calliope and Airborne commanders because those fix holes in the stock line-up that can not be easily filled in otherwise.

They didn't need anything big. Unlike UKF which was doing bad as a faction across multiple modes and the EFA half of whose commanders were either boring copy pastas of each other with minor alterations or straight up useless.

Yeah, but I think there was a good opportunity to add new units for OKW without breaking the balance.(I don't know about USF)

And OKW does not lack anything after previous commander patch that introduced new units and abilities to them.

They got least, because they were strongest and lacked least.

They are the worst in 1v1 together with British, and I guess the balance was focused on 1v1 and 2v2, because larger team games are hard to balance, plus I will remind again this is not about balance it is about fun, I can't see what is your problem with adding few new units that fits the commanders and don't break the balance, they already did that with three factions.

They are the worst in 1v1 together with British, and I guess the balance was focused on 1v1 and 2v2, because larger team games are hard to balance, plus I will remind again this is not about balance it is about fun, I can't see what is your problem with adding few new units that fits the commanders and don't break the balance, they already did that with three factions.

https://coh2stats.com/stats/month/1617235200/1v1/wermacht?statsSource=top200

Not even close.
In fact, they are pretty much perfectly balanced for 1v1 top 200.

OKW had the healthiest commander variety out of all factions and only needed minor tuning.
USF isn't far behind in terms of viability for all commanders (across different modes), although it has an inherent popularity problem with the Priest/Calliope and Airborne commanders because those fix holes in the stock line-up that can not be easily filled in otherwise.

They didn't need anything big. Unlike UKF which was doing bad as a faction across multiple modes and the EFA half of whose commanders were either boring copy pastas of each other with minor alteration or straight up useless.

Vanilla (OST and SOV) had several viable options that were tuned and improved despite several WFA commanders being far more deserving. With vanilla, there was a clear attempt at creating synergy between all abilities of as much commanders as possible
The mod team also went above and beyond to make sure most abilities are worth a slot, for example bundling the already powerful but situational riegel with mobile observation posts.

Meanwhile Grand Offensive is stuck with Panzer Commander that can't be used in its Tiger and was left there even after it was removed as upgrade path for the Tiger, Airborne still has paradropped team weapons despite backteching for them being made quite cheaper, Feuersturm still has incendiary barrage as single slot for a single special ability for a single unit locked in BTG HQ, despite the same commander having Opel Ambulance.

Both the Soviets and Wehrmacht got better and actually powerful defensive option, especially OST concrete mg bunkers allowing reinforcement on the field, but the mod team didn't try to give a veterancy or even just purpose to the flak emplacements.

If the Soviets had Infantry Company the Mortar HT would have been removed for something not overlapping with the Priest long ago for example.
If Festung Armor would have been an OKW commander it would have NEVER got buffed hulldown, Panzer tactician and superior doctrinal premium tank because it would have been considered a broken combination.

If it was just about making more commanders usable EFA would have received half the changes it got and be done with it.
A lot of WFA commanders could have benefit from more small changes that would have hardly made any commanders or singular abilities OP but just fixed poor synergy.
EFA just got a better treatment, at least that's how I felt about the patch

Yeah OKW didn't really need much if any changes. They have some of the best commanders in the game in my opinion when it comes to diversity.

USF on the other hand is severely lacking in good commanders due to not having a complete faction so you are often forced to pick a commander for tools that most factions have access too (such as mines). USF overall is poorly designed in my opinion.

Commanders should provide additional supplemental units/abilities. For example the 120mm for the Soviets is not really needed but its nice to have where as USF need Calliope/Priest to deal with team weapon spam since they don't have access to normal artillery units like every other faction (minus british but they are already the worst faction win rate wise)

https://coh2stats.com/stats/month/1617235200/1v1/wermacht?statsSource=top200

Not even close.
In fact, they are pretty much perfectly balanced for 1v1 top 200.

So the game for you is 200 player only ? and even in this, they are not over performing and they are below 50% winrate while some other factions are above 50% winrate, now lets look to their overall performance not just top 200

https://coh2stats.com/stats/month/1617235200/1v1/wermacht?statsSource=all

I just want to add that I actually think that the WFA commander variety will actually get worse
Mechanized, Airborne and Rifle Company will disappear and Armor, Infantry and Urban Assault will be the only USF commanders to actually be used.

So the game for you is 200 player only ? and even in this, they are not over performing and they are below 50% winrate while some other factions are above 50% winrate, now lets look to their overall performance not just top 200

https://coh2stats.com/stats/month/1617235200/1v1/wermacht?statsSource=all

or maybe the players that aren't top 200 could start watching casts of the better players and try to get better so it doesn't seem so unbalanced.....

or maybe the players that aren't top 200 could start watching casts of the better players and try to get better so it doesn't seem so unbalanced.....

So you says that only 200 players are good on each faction? at least get top 1000 as a valid states and even in top 200, they are very close to USF and behind Ostheer and Soviets who got new units! so how it is very normal for Ostheer (The best faction in 1v1) and Soviets (The second best faction) to have new units, and in the same time it is unacceptable for OKW and USF to get some fresh new units? this doesn't make any sense!!

Meanwhile Grand Offensive is stuck with Panzer Commander that can't be used in its Tiger and was left there even after it was removed as upgrade path for the Tiger,

Grand Offensive is a powerful commander that is perfectly in the middle ground in terms of popularity (and strength). The Panzer Commander slot helps balance out the commander that has 4 other very strong abilities, and it's a nice upgrade for P4s (arty) or Panthers (sight and accuracy) anyway.

Airborne still has paradropped team weapons despite backteching for them being made quite cheaper,

Airborne is a powerful commander that is top 3 in terms of popularity across all modes. It has a powerful offmap and the team weapon drops are still way more efficient than backteching.

Feuersturm still has incendiary barrage as single slot for a single special ability for a single unit locked in BTG HQ, despite the same commander having Opel Ambulance.

Feuersturm is ridiculously strong on city maps and top 4 most popular commander in teamgames.


None of these commanders needed any major overhauls or ability swaps because they are already good and popular, and to avoid the risk of making them too powerful.

So the game for you is 200 player only ?

Yes, because if you can't use the tools properly, giving you new ones will only mean you can't use more tools properly.

Grand Offensive is a powerful commander that is perfectly in the middle ground in terms of popularity (and strength). The Panzer Commander slot helps balance out the commander that has 4 other very strong abilities, and it's a nice upgrade for P4s (arty) or Panthers (sight and accuracy) anyway.

And I don't see how changing Panzer Commander for a 105mm barrage offmap would have made Grand Offensive OP
Regarding the sight bonus, Grand Offensive is the doctrine with Panzerfusiliers, the infantry unit with extra sight range AND flare, and the heavy tank means it will only be used at best on one vehicle unless you don't use the Command Tiger
This way of "balancing out" is exactly my issue with how WFA commanders have been designed, a rule that doesn't apply to EFA. Purposefully stuffing together in the same commander (actually it wasn't on purpose btw, Panzer Commander was meant to be used with Tiger before the due nerf) abilities that don't work well together is a questionable design choice that just makes commanders bland choices between 3 or less actual slots.
What's exactly meant to "balance out" in EFA top picks like Spearhead Doctrine or the new Soviet Shock Army? Nothing, all slots are equally important and great useful abilities.
EFA commanders are balanced by making the commander lack in 1 or 2 aspects, be an off map, an elite infantry, an heavy tank, recon, a good loiter... This is a sensible way of balancing
WFA commanders are "balanced" by wasting a slot on an ability that will most likely never ever be used or having 2 slots that lack synergy. Would Sector Assault be OP in Grand Offensive? Yes. Would 105mm barrage be OP in Grand Offensive? Most likely not, and would fit better a doctrine that already has recon options and the only OKW tank that can't use Panzer Commander. Probably it wouldn't even change the pickrate of the doctrine one bit. It's no "major" change.

Airborne is a powerful commander that is top 3 in terms of popularity across all modes. It has a powerful offmap and the team weapon drops are still way more efficient than backteching.

But at the cost of TWO slots, one necessarily being useless as you'll tech for one or the other. EFA gets a bundle drop. It's a doctrine without any special armor or artillery option that competes with Urban Assault and Tactical Support.
I also generally disagree with the notion that used = "good" or used = "doesn't need changes at all". Have the Tigers commaders ever stop being relevant picks if not top dogs of OST commander meta before the Tiger buff (and it was considerably buffed)? If the Tiger commanders were already popular does that mean that the Tiger buff was unnecessary?

Feuersturm is ridiculously strong on city maps and top 4 most popular commander in teamgames.

It's a commander with lots of abilities for bonus dps against garrisons and cover and the total OKW commanders are 9, meaning it's slightly above average in teamgames.
At least to me it doesn't seem remarkable at all and I don't see how being the 4th best out of 9 doctrines means it should have an almost wasted slot

Yes, because if you can't use the tools properly, giving you new ones will only mean you can't use more tools properly.

I think you still don't understand the post or you just love to spam non sense , I won't bother myself to discuss u, but I will re explain this for the others who may read this, this post is about adding more fun and units to factions without breaking the balance, so if you couldn't understand what fun means this post is not made for u.