Am I the only one who thinks it's dumb Axis can spam so many tanks that are better than basically every Ally tank? Always win early game handily, than comes 3 panthers, some P4s, and a tiger ace mid game, completely steam rolling the game. I despise that "comeback" since it makes early game worthless. Why are Axis the ones spamming out tanks, isn't that the allies job???
Had a Churchill and two KV-1s against a panther and one OKW P4, it was our side that limped away, with the Churchill dead and slivers of health on the KV-1s. Panther was a little less than half health and the P4 almost dead. Don't know why their team mate with two panthers on the side didn't just finish my tanks off, he barely was paying attention.
Is there no way to increase costs or repair times or even build time in anyway? There has to be something done, because tanks don't suffer MP bleed, Axis can just lean on their tanks and amass a huge amount of manpower to offset any losses easily.
Axis tank spam in teams
22 Jun 2021, 03:25 AM
#1
Posts: 39
hows it going
22 Jun 2021, 03:38 AM
#2
Posts: 1958
Your poll is somewhat flawed since tanks depend on fuel as much as they do MP. If you're getting rolled by massive amounts of tanks then you probably didn't have a good start to the game.
22 Jun 2021, 05:58 AM
#3
Posts: 486
there is a pop efficiency issue, with Axis tanks and elite infantry being REALLY pop efficient, especially in the late game long range fight. This enables rocket arty spam
The answer, to my understanding, is just push up the pop cost of high power multi-purpose (add 2 to Panther/Brummbar) and make Land Mattress and Calliope non-doc to punish elite infantry spam. Yea, I will keep campaigning on rockets for everyone.
Or put a cap on rocket artillery count. I doubt people want that. And not all shock arty is equal.
Or put a cap on rocket artillery count. I doubt people want that. And not all shock arty is equal.
22 Jun 2021, 08:43 AM
#4
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
there is a pop efficiency issue, with Axis tanks and elite infantry being REALLY pop efficient, especially in the late game long range fight. This enables rocket arty spam
The answer, to my understanding, is just push up the pop cost of high power multi-purpose (add 2 to Panther/Brummbar) and make Land Mattress and Calliope non-doc to punish elite infantry spam. Yea, I will keep campaigning on rockets for everyone.
Or put a cap on rocket artillery count. I doubt people want that. And not all shock arty is equal.
Neither Panther nor Brumbar are multi-purpose units.
22 Jun 2021, 11:03 AM
#5
Posts: 1158
I raised this same concern worded differently not long ago, it's not just the tanks, just about everything axis can field is efficient and effective.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
22 Jun 2021, 11:04 AM
#6
Posts: 163
pick british spam comet profit
22 Jun 2021, 11:26 AM
#7
Posts: 956
Allies have extremely cost efficient TDs in the Firefly, SU-85 and especially M36. They can swiss cheese any axis tank out there frontally & effortlessly except for JP4 and Ele/JT. Panthers haven't been an issue since 2017 or so.
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
22 Jun 2021, 11:43 AM
#8
Posts: 1515
Bullshit. Sure axis have the lategame advantage, but as far as I know, the game doesn't start 30 minutes in. This ain't no "in medias res" game as far as I can tell. Are changes needed? Yes. Is this thread mind-numbing? Also yes.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
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22 Jun 2021, 13:31 PM
#9
Posts: 682
there is a pop efficiency issue, with Axis tanks and elite infantry being REALLY pop efficient, especially in the late game long range fight. This enables rocket arty spam
The answer, to my understanding, is just push up the pop cost of high power multi-purpose (add 2 to Panther/Brummbar) and make Land Mattress and Calliope non-doc to punish elite infantry spam. Yea, I will keep campaigning on rockets for everyone.
Or put a cap on rocket artillery count. I doubt people want that. And not all shock arty is equal.
The balance team isn't perfect but after reading your comments about a multi purpose panther and brumbar and the b4 thread, I'm at least glad that you're not on it.
/s
22 Jun 2021, 15:32 PM
#10
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Had a Churchill and two KV-1s against a panther and one OKW P4,
because tanks don't suffer MP bleed, Axis can just lean on their tanks and amass a huge amount of manpower to offset any losses easily.
Well here is your problem. If you're measuring heavy infantry tanks against other tanks that have decent armor then of course you're going to be disappointed. They don't have the penetration to truly excel in tank battles and are high pop because of how durable they are which makes them super obnoxious en masse.
All tanks don't suffer MP bleed so it works both ways. A better counter example is looking at how T34 spam can be super efficient for the fuel and popcap cost if you trade well and don't throw them away. There isn't anything special about axis tanks that makes them more spamable.
22 Jun 2021, 15:58 PM
#11
Posts: 486
The balance team isn't perfect but after reading your comments about a multi purpose panther and brumbar and the b4 thread, I'm at least glad that you're not on it.
Updated post. Yea, i am wrong about the Panther and Brummbar issue.
Not the B-4s, i think that needs time to see if actually OP or just forcing a meta adjustment. Maybe increase rocket truck pop, spamming more than 2 becomes really abusive.
22 Jun 2021, 16:59 PM
#12
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Allies have extremely cost efficient TDs in the Firefly, SU-85 and especially M36. They can swiss cheese any axis tank out there frontally & effortlessly except for JP4 and Ele/JT. Panthers haven't been an issue since 2017 or so.
"Effortlessly" lol
22 Jun 2021, 17:12 PM
#13
Posts: 956
"Effortlessly" lol
What, range 40-50 tanks can hit your TDs at range 60?
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
22 Jun 2021, 17:20 PM
#14
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
What, range 40-50 tanks can hit your TDs at range 60?
Cause using tanks who's only protection is range is definitely effortless
22 Jun 2021, 17:24 PM
#15
Posts: 956
Cause using tanks who's only protection is range is definitely effortless
Come on, don't argue over semantics. I don't call pressing U and making sure you don't get circle strafed 'effort'.For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
22 Jun 2021, 17:27 PM
#16
Posts: 39
One player sat his two panther on my sides VP, so I set a SU-85 to push it back a bit. He didn't bother moving it, but after like 8 shots my SU barely got it to below half health, which I think is completely not ok. Those same panthers constantly kill like three models of vetted cons with their main cannon shots, panthers are in no way not any good at AI.
hows it going
27 Jun 2021, 20:38 PM
#18
Posts: 449
Those same panthers constantly kill like three models of vetted cons with their main cannon shots, panthers are in no way not any good at AI.
You should dump your entire bank account on lottery tickets.
28 Jun 2021, 01:20 AM
#19
Posts: 1660
One player sat his two panther on my sides VP, so I set a SU-85 to push it back a bit. He didn't bother moving it, but after like 8 shots my SU barely got it to below half health, which I think is completely not ok. Those same panthers constantly kill like three models of vetted cons with their main cannon shots, panthers are in no way not any good at AI.
9 Jul 2021, 00:35 AM
#20
Posts: 9
One player sat his two panther on my sides VP, so I set a SU-85 to push it back a bit. He didn't bother moving it, but after like 8 shots my SU barely got it to below half health, which I think is completely not ok. Those same panthers constantly kill like three models of vetted cons with their main cannon shots, panthers are in no way not any good at AI.
SU85 requires 6 shots to pen to kill a panther
SU85 has 220 penetration at far range
Chance to pen a 260 armor panther = 220/260*100 = 84%
I highly doubt you managed to miss or bounce 5 of your 8 shots, since the su85 is pretty accurate at long range, the odds are pretty low
And panthers dont constantly kill infantry, they are tank destroyers, not anti infantry tanks, and i cant remember the math exactly, but the chances of killing even 1 model are already really low.
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