Axis tank spam in teams

You should try rushing and contesting fuel points more often. Less fuel for the enemy means less tanks to fight later.

SU85 requires 6 shots to pen to kill a panther

SU85 has 220 penetration at far range

Chance to pen a 260 armor panther = 220/260*100 = 84%

I highly doubt you managed to miss or bounce 5 of your 8 shots, since the su85 is pretty accurate at long range, the odds are pretty low

And panthers dont constantly kill infantry, they are tank destroyers, not anti infantry tanks, and i cant remember the math exactly, but the chances of killing even 1 model are already really low.

until 3-4 panther warband comming, follow up with gren, pzgren, fussilier, Osber and yet some heavy stuff.
60 range advantage would be nothing against that kind of pushing. Until Alies team actually prepare for this which is not most of the time.

The Panther has massive AI baked into its MGs, so it does dramatically worse vs vetted troops in any cover. Still, it has a LOT of AI DPS for what many call a 'TD'. Its a heavy tank, and is speced accordingly.

If we allowed a pintle gunner on the Jackson, would that be acceptable? I bet people would be up in arms that the 60td can't be beat now that it has massive AI capabilities. The panther isn't as good as a brumbar, tiger, or panzerIV, but it still pulls it's weight fighting off infantry. Combine that with the fact that for the most part it's extremely resistant to damage from infantry, unless flanked or already damaged about 10-20% for a snare to work.

The problem with tanks from axis in team games is a combination of things. Much of which do not have the same impact in a 1v1. Axis units are more efficient than allied units. This is on a unit to unit case. There are some situations where this can skew, because I think allies have more of an advantage when a game devolves to the point that it's just artillery being shot across the map at each other and no one can advance. Many people like to make an infantry advantage on allies, but there are many caveats to this. We have 6 man axis squads and 5 man squads, so the numbers game is not always in allied favor.

When it comes to tanks, you're paying a little more on the Axis side, but you're getting a much better deal. The armor actually feels like armor. The guns are powerful and make a real impact.

I see axis players taking advantage of this all the time in team games. If you only play axis games, you have likely never seen people getting frustrated out of their mind at their teamates. Often, I have players I would deem below my level doing strats as simple as attack moving a blob, with maybe 2 anti-tank guns behind them(also in attack move) and it works.

I don't think anyone on this forum has recommended I try to take out an axis blob with an allied blob. I think it's generally agreed upon that the axis dps will eliminate the allied blob every time. So people tell me to use vehicles, which does work. However, so do those anti-tank guns. They work great, every time, every shot. What stops an allied player from doing the same thing? As axis, you can stop the allied blob and if you can't, it only takes a second or two to focus fire the at guns and retreat.

The reason this is important when it comes to tanks, is when we talk about the disadvantages of axis tanks. The pop cap cost is typically higher and the fuel cost is higher. There may be a higher MP cost too, but honestly it might as well not be there, since you will have it in spades thanks to the efficiency of the army as a whole(especially true in a team game). Yes, as allies it is possible to contest fuel from axis, but doing so at equal skill is highly unlikely. Not in a team game. In a 1v1 you can pull it off, especially if you're highly skilled. In team games, you need to be better than your opponents.

As a solution, I think the costs need to be re-evaluated. I think the armor values need to be equalized more. Not such that a t34 is blocking tiger shots, but maybe that an at gun has a chance to bounce or more of a chance. If that results in Tiger shots bounching, then raise tiger penetration, because honesly, no one bitches about tiger penetrations, unless it's going against the rare is2 or such. I don't want to be exact in the solution, but what you get for the costs are way out of imbalance and it shows itself a lot in team games when you can get dramatic assaults that pretty much end games in a very efficient manner, escalating with skill.

It deters me from playing axis in team games, because it isn't challenging enough. Especially with a pre-made team. Yea, I'll still get beat sometimes, but typically the opponent is like I said, above my skill level. In coh1 I played mostly Axis. It was a challenge there. I could not send a panther to knock out 2 shermans in a wreckless manner and have a reasonable expectation of survival. I could not send anti-tank infantry into a blob of bar riflemen and live long enough to hit whatever target was beyond them. Easy wins are boring to me.