The Stug E is still a terrible tank

The Problem with the Stug E is that instead of attacking at Max Range when you right click it moves closer than intended so extra micro is needed to maximize its usefulness.

Similar to a bug where your AT Infantry (Panzer Grenadiers for example) will run up to a tank to shoot rather than Max Range fire the AT Weapons.

Aside from that is pretty good though the Vet 1 ability is rather shite. If anything the ability could use some love and the vet is rather lackluster as well.

It gains

Vet 2
+30% armour.
+10% reload speed.

Vet 3
+30% reload speed.
+20% rotation speed.
+20% maximum speed.
+20% ac/de-celeration.

A scatter improvement in Vet instead of the Reload Speed would be better.

make it 50 fuel

play Stug E as M8 scott, people.
dont forget to learn how to kitting, manual attack through shotblocker.

No one respects it since it does so little damage and fires so slow, build one and your handicapping yourself against a capable opponent.

The argument of it being cheap doesn't really justify it imo, especially because turretless tanks are always cheaper than turretted counterparts

Its dirt cheap even compared to these other casemates.
Its cheaper then some LIGHTS and its a medium.
It performs according to its price within its class.

the unit itself isn't even that bad for its cost and timing. for me the more glaring issue is that getting one instead of a p4 is risky as it leaves you exposed without a proper counter to a quick tank by your opponent. and contrary to a rushed ostwind the AI performance isn't that stellar either, especially since you can't really engage moving targets effectively or circle-strafe an AT gun.

i guess if the vet1 ability were to get some love and could actually provide some meaningful support against tanks the stug e would see more widespread use.

It'd be better off having a role more distinct to that of the Brummbar, honestly. OKW would likely love to have the STUG-E, but it's really surplus to requirement for OST in most cases.

I agree to that. The StuG E would probably be fantastic in the hands of OKW, OST already has a lot of AI options both stock and doctrinally and even at similar timing.

The argument of it being cheap doesn't really justify it imo, especially because turretless tanks are always cheaper than turretted counterparts, and for much less you can obtain actually good turretted light vehicles with comparable if not sometimes better dps against infantry and a nice mobility.
For the same price, you can also get a nice M8 scott gun carrier that can actually deal better with team weapons and moving infantry, while having a turret and mobility, and their armor difference is irrelevant until the Stug 3 E reaches vet 2 and gets a bonus, but even then 180 armor will rarely make the Stug E bounce anything but base PIATS and Bazooka.

Not only that, but the small AOE and the slow projectile make manual aiming really inconsistent without very high accuracy.

I absolutely find the Command Panzer IV a much better AI option on top of being turretted, mobile, able to deal with light vehicles and having the Command aura. And it even got a smoke shell that can support against team weapons, and that's 100 fuel, so 25 more

I agree to most of this as well, although I find it harder to compare the StuG E with the Scott. They function similarly, but in the end the Scott has to make up for the lack of rocket artillery. But that's another topic.

What the StuG lacks (or lacked? Let's see what the patch changes bring) overall is a place: Both in the OST line up as well as in different game modes. The 50 range are a decent difference to the Brumm: Support gun instead of breacher. But I think it fell short on the game modes: Casemates are barely used in 1v1, and for larger modes it is still somewhat fragile. It had a window of maybe 2v2 but that might not have been enough.

Let's see though what the commander changes will do. The smoke is another decent ability to differentiate it from the Brummbar. Not so sure about the pintle though, but time will tell.
We have to remember the StuG E is only 8 POP when discussing the approximate power level. That puts it roughly between Luchs and Ostwind in terms of performance.

I still remember stugE spam with AT.

Buffing with current timing with current cost would be insanely OP. That's why they changed stug E to fire indirectly at the first place.

Way too ineffective alone, so it needs to be used in pairs, which makes pathing super awkward.

I agree to that. The StuG E would probably be fantastic in the hands of OKW, OST already has a lot of AI options both stock and doctrinally and even at similar timing.

I get the argument that OST has comfortable lesser Panzer IV (G) that is a safer bet.
It would probably be theoretically a better option to consider in the hands of OKW, but imo end up being neglected in favour of doctrinal Ostwind or Luchs simply due to its micro intensive requirements and underwhelming performances.
If an OKW player keeps a luchs alive for 5 minutes he gets a lategame killing machine that can suppress squads in green cover.
The Ostwind is a solid tank that can hold off t-70s and even Stuarts and AEC when properly supported
The Stug E is simply unrewarding, so even OKW, with its expensive premium Panzer IV (J) would have better Tier 3.5 vehicle options.

What the StuG lacks (or lacked? Let's see what the patch changes bring) overall is a place: Both in the OST line up as well as in different game modes. The 50 range are a decent difference to the Brumm: Support gun instead of breacher. But I think it fell short on the game modes: Casemates are barely used in 1v1, and for larger modes it is still somewhat fragile. It had a window of maybe 2v2 but that might not have been enough.

The extra range doesn't really play in its favour with the slow projectile and casamate set up. As a support gun, to my experience it's inferior to even autofire 120mm mortar and leIG options
I think it would probably work better as a direct fire turretless anti infantry tank with a su-76 barrage ability.
Casamates may be less used in 1vs1, but they are definitely still present, especially Stug G, Jagdpanzer IV ( and SU 85 occasionally.
The reason they are less used imo is that heavy tanks are much less common as well, and since most (all but the stug E and Brummbar) casamates are tank destroyers this makes premium mediums like KV1, T-34/85 and Panzer IV, generalists capable of engaging all targets especially with atg support, a better investment.
I don't think it has to do with casamates in general.

Way too ineffective alone, so it needs to be used in pairs, which makes pathing super awkward.

And at that point it's just much more efficient to use a Bruumbar

I get the argument that OST has comfortable lesser Panzer IV (G) that is a safer bet.
It would probably be theoretically a better option to consider in the hands of OKW, but imo end up being neglected in favour of doctrinal Ostwind or Luchs simply due to its micro intensive requirements and underwhelming performances.
If an OKW player keeps a luchs alive for 5 minutes he gets a lategame killing machine that can suppress squads in green cover.
The Ostwind is a solid tank that can hold off t-70s and even Stuarts and AEC when properly supported
The Stug E is simply unrewarding, so even OKW, with its expensive premium Panzer IV (J) would have better Tier 3.5 vehicle options.

I think OKW would benefit more from the unit since the faction lacks a late game AI vehicle that can support in an ongoing fight. They have Obersoldaten for that, but sometimes you don't want additional infantry to reduce bleed. They go directly from Luchs to an expensive P4, so at least the StuG E would have a niche as an AI specialist above the Luchs if you don't want a P4 for the job. Doesn't necessarily make it a great unit, but the StuG E would at least fill a whole in the line up, whereas it competes with at least two stock units (plus alternative doctrinal units) in OST.

The extra range doesn't really play in its favour with the slow projectile and casamate set up. As a support gun, to my experience it's inferior to even autofire 120mm mortar and leIG options
I think it would probably work better as a direct fire turretless anti infantry tank with a su-76 barrage ability.

I agree to that, although I personally like the way units like the StuG E, Brumm and Scott function with their "manual" aiming. However I'd assume if it had direct fire it didn't need an additional barrage, but that would be up for testing.

Casamates may be less used in 1vs1, but they are definitely still present, especially Stug G, Jagdpanzer IV ( and SU 85 occasionally.
The reason they are less used imo is that heavy tanks are much less common as well, and since most (all but the stug E and Brummbar) casamates are tank destroyers this makes premium mediums like KV1, T-34/85 and Panzer IV, generalists capable of engaging all targets especially with atg support, a better investment.
I don't think it has to do with casamates in general.

These units are used less because in 1v1s they are prone to being flanked. Larger modes become more "laney", making flanking harder. In essence casemates keep their strength while their disadvantage to being flanked diminishes. In 1v1 it is basically the opposite. Obviously these are also map dependent, but the general point holds still true.

The StuG E will always feel underwhelming since it fills no new role.

Panzer IV is safer and can circle AT guns. (More expensive but extra AT)

Ostwind is also safer and can circle AT guns. (Slightly more expensive but extra AA + Anti Light vehicle)

The only thing it has going for it is the reduced fuel cost.

What's the range on it? Could that be increased a bit? I don't see it being abusable like the Scott was since it doesn't have a turret.

Imo it would be cool if he had its armor\health reduced and had a fire model like other LVs and be awaible from T2. Price should be also ajusted to match its timing to Stuart\T70\AEC

In other words to make it doctrinal "LV" for Ostheer, since they are the only faction which dont have any outside of glasscannons ones like 222 and FlameHT.

At least in this role it would make sence to use one. Since when you have it in T3 PIV or Ostwind are still supperior choses and you are not paying that much more considering difference in perfomance. It objectively has its place right now only if you are behind in fuel badly.

Imo it would be cool if he had its armor\health reduced and had a fire model like other LVs and be awaible from T2. Price should be also ajusted to match its timing to Stuart\T70\AEC

In other words to make it doctrinal "LV" for Ostheer, since they are the only faction which dont have any outside of glasscannons ones like 222 and FlameHT.

At least in this role it would make sence to use one. Since when you have it in T3 PIV or Ostwind are still supperior choses and you are not paying that much more considering difference in perfomance. It objectively has its place right now only if you are behind in fuel badly.

That sounds fun!

Imo it would be cool if he had its armor\health reduced and had a fire model like other LVs and be awaible from T2. Price should be also ajusted to match its timing to Stuart\T70\AEC

In other words to make it doctrinal "LV" for Ostheer, since they are the only faction which dont have any outside of glasscannons ones like 222 and FlameHT.

At least in this role it would make sence to use one. Since when you have it in T3 PIV or Ostwind are still supperior choses and you are not paying that much more considering difference in perfomance. It objectively has its place right now only if you are behind in fuel badly.

I like this idea as well. Any buffs would just make it closer to Ostwind/Brummbar. So why not go in the opposite direction and nerf but lower price.

It would not become op at a new timing i think, based on it still being hard countered by anti tank guns because it cannot flank (no turrret) and its earler timing would not shut down allied light vehicles as it cant hit them with its arc projectiles