Are osttruppen still viable in 2021?

Jump back to quoted post1 Jun 2021, 19:35 PMEtherealDragon

Ostruppen have always had the bigger target size and cover requirement and yet were used to good effect before so there really isn't a need to consider that. If you can build 2-3 ostruppen faster than 2-3 Grenadiers because they are cheaper then that is still an advantage is all I'm saying. Their faster/cheaper reinforce time also lets you get back on the field faster too which is also still an advantage. They have always been "grenadier ver. 2" . You're saying that like it's a bad thing or something new but Call-In Grenadier Ver. 2 and Buildable grenadier Ver. 2. is still grenadier ver. 2. no matter how you slice it.

Jump back to quoted post1 Jun 2021, 19:58 PMVipper

If in your opinion they are "grenadier ver. 2" you should be debating JPA32 who has a different opinion and not me.

Turning a doctrinal infatry to clone of the mainline of faction is not very good design.

But no they where not always like that. They started a cheap squad that would be used to cap fast and allow ostheer to gain an early advantage and they would lose power after a while.

Jump back to quoted post1 Jun 2021, 20:16 PMEtherealDragon

So are you trying to say the fact that you've lost like 30 seconds-1 minute of capping due to having build T1 that they've gone from viable to non-viable?

Jump back to quoted post1 Jun 2021, 20:16 PMEtherealDragon

Because combat wise they function exactly like they've always had past the very early game when you could milk what was most broken about them by spamming Call-in them. I fail to see how changing them from Call-In to Buildable is suddenly turning them into a clone and "bad-design" when that's the only thing you're changing. I think it's worse design if you're arguing that they are only viable if you can have the really hard to counter early game pressure that snowballs - because either their combat power and scaling is good or it isn't. If yes they then are viable...

Jump back to quoted post2 Jun 2021, 05:45 AMKurobane

Ostruppen are basically the Whermact Version of Conscripts. Put them in cover and they will shine (Similar to Soviet Cons). The main difference is that Ostruppen are beyond useless without cover while Conscripts are still useful.

The biggest weakness is map design. If you are on a wide open map with no cover Ostruppen will suck major ass unless the enemy gives you time to build cover which is unlikely as Pioneer's take 1000 years to build sand bags.

Also Ostruppen are available in numerous commanders. Some of those decent while others are trash tier so it depends really.

Jump back to quoted post2 Jun 2021, 18:22 PMLewka

Hey, did you see how when beta goes live Osttrupp can place sandbags no matter what at the start of a match? Also when they gain vet1 they can build defenses faster

Jump back to quoted post2 Jun 2021, 18:47 PMEtherealDragon

Not quite. That change didn't make it in but they did add sand bags to Ostruppen that you get through Relief Infantry- so in theory those Ostruppen are more viable now especially since they 100% get LMG. I think it will take some time to feel Ostruppen out since they got another early game nerf but they scale better. It might be better to build some mix of both Grens and Ostruppen in this patch...

Jump back to quoted post2 Jun 2021, 18:47 PMEtherealDragon

Not quite. That change didn't make it in but they did add sand bags to Ostruppen that you get through Relief Infantry- so in theory those Ostruppen are more viable now especially since they 100% get LMG. I think it will take some time to feel Ostruppen out since they got another early game nerf but they scale better. It might be better to build some mix of both Grens and Ostruppen in this patch...

Jump back to quoted post2 Jun 2021, 21:39 PMClarity

Osttruppen are pretty good right now. Unless you don't use cover they trade very efficiently against enemy units, they just need support from P-Grens/MG's to win engagements but they don't really bleed unless you are taking terrible engagements constantly. Still not really sure why the balance team is changing them more, the changes make me a bit worried they will be stronger next patch and I don't really want the Osttruppen meta to return at least in 1v1. I like to mix them with Grens and spam sandbags everywhere once you unlock Entrenching Tools. I would assume most of the 1v1/2v2 players on the balance team know they don't need to be buffed at all so I'm not really sure who is putting these changes through honestly. Trying to make Ostruppen good in 4v4 will just ruin all other game types honestly.

Jump back to quoted post2 Jun 2021, 21:39 PMClarity

Osttruppen are pretty good right now. Unless you don't use cover they trade very efficiently against enemy units, they just need support from P-Grens/MG's to win engagements but they don't really bleed unless you are taking terrible engagements constantly. Still not really sure why the balance team is changing them more, the changes make me a bit worried they will be stronger next patch and I don't really want the Osttruppen meta to return at least in 1v1. I like to mix them with Grens and spam sandbags everywhere once you unlock Entrenching Tools. I would assume most of the 1v1/2v2 players on the balance team know they don't need to be buffed at all so I'm not really sure who is putting these changes through honestly. Trying to make Ostruppen good in 4v4 will just ruin all other game types honestly.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2021, 19:00 PMmiragefla

Do note the patch note changes which are available for reading, they are less potent early on in exchange for a stronger LMG and that LMG arriving earlier. Prior to those changes, Osttruppen traded/won at mid and long-ranges against even Rifles and Tommies when in cover wars early game despite being cheaper and costing much less to reinforce than these units.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jun 2021, 10:07 AMGeblobt

But whats the point of buffing their dps? This change makes them pretty similar to Grens. Decent squad with snare and good long range lategame performance. The only difference is the model count. So if both units are stock, there would be no reason to go Grens. I still dont know why Osttruppen - the cheap, poor equipped and barely trained squad (ingame and historical) - gets a lmg. Or am i wrong here?

Is there no solid idea around giving them more utility instead of this?

Jump back to quoted post4 Jun 2021, 10:17 AMKatitof

Being a meat shield, low attrition squad is their utility.

I don't know what you expect here.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jun 2021, 10:22 AMHannibal

That's exactly what he said. Unlike Grens they are not meant for dealing a lot of damage, yet they get a simple DPS buff. While that is a way to balance them, it is probably the most boring solution.

Jump back to quoted post4 Jun 2021, 10:26 AMKatitof

It might be, but then again, what do people expect?
Ultra niche specialization that will throw them into pit of irrelevance?

They are cheap combat mainline alternative, again, what kind of utility people expect them to get? 7th man?
What kind of utility makes sense for "the cheap, poor equipped and barely trained squad"? LMGs weren't exactly uncommon.