Assault Guards are very squishy, especially compared to other infantry of their type and cost.
They could really use a small buff to make them more viable, especially against tanks.
Well they are essentially penals.
Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback
16 Apr 2021, 04:27 AM
#361
Posts: 1563
Well they are essentially penals.
16 Apr 2021, 04:30 AM
#362
Posts: 1563
And soo................, Para's also don't have t70 supporting them.
AGs don't have dual bar rifles supporting them.
16 Apr 2021, 06:33 AM
#363
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Its all relative. A few percent better target size isn't terribly noticeable. They may not be "squishy" but they are not durable by soviet standards.
If they are not "squishy" you agree with my point so I am not sure what you want to debate. I have not called the squad as extremely durable by any standards so I am not sure why you make it appear so in your post.
They would be incredibly durable for Ostheer. But they sre not Ostheer squads. They are soviet squads, and by that metric they are not really durable.
Paras are tanky, because their base infantry are only 5 models. They have a whole extra man slapped on there and that makes a huge difference.
You analysis is simply flawed.
Paras bring allot more than just an extra entity, they bring Elite carbines/SMG/LMG/Elite bazookas. If it was the extra model that made the difference Ranges who are also 5 entities would not be used.
Everything is relative. And an average 6 man squad isn't anything special for soviet REGARDLESS of how great the same 6 man squad would be for any other faction.
Again I personally don't have an input on how they feel because I have not used them yet, but I can absolutely see the perspective of why some might feel they are underwhelming as RELATIVE to the soviet, they arnt really anything special.
One does not get assault guards because of the "superior durability" but because of their superior firepower. And their firepower is superior.
I suggest you use them or test the version that available in live (which is weaker) instead of theory crafting since as you say you have not used them.
Finally units are balance with what they have to fight and Assault guards can fight axis units just fine. They are probably one of the most cost efficient units.
16 Apr 2021, 07:47 AM
#364
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
And soo................, Para's also don't have t70 supporting them.
They don't need to, because they don't have mainline infantry that's crippled until late game and can actually compete and win engagements from get go.
And Stuart isn't bad either.
Point is, paras have nowhere near the pressure on them as soviet doctrinal inf, because stock inf actually does the job.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
16 Apr 2021, 08:52 AM
#365
Posts: 1563
They don't need to, because they don't have mainline infantry that's crippled until late game and can actually compete and win engagements from get go.
And Stuart isn't bad either.
Point is, paras have nowhere near the pressure on them as soviet doctrinal inf, because stock inf actually does the job.
It's your l2p issue dude if you think sov infantry is crippled.
16 Apr 2021, 08:56 AM
#366
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
It's your l2p issue dude if you think sov infantry is crippled.
You might have played against it for so long to the point you have forgotten that SVT is not stock upgrade.
Pre upgrade cons are reliable, not good. They will reliably deal damage, but that's still pretty damn low damage.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
16 Apr 2021, 09:17 AM
#367
Posts: 1563
M8, look at my player card, it's wide open and tell me that again.
You might have played against it for so long to the point you have forgotten that SVT is not stock upgrade.
Pre upgrade cons are reliable, not good. They will reliably deal damage, but that's still pretty damn low damage.
16 Apr 2021, 09:20 AM
#368
Posts: 378
You might have played against it for so long to the point you have forgotten that SVT is not stock upgrade.
Pre upgrade cons are reliable, not good. They will reliably deal damage, but that's still pretty damn low damage.
7-man conscript squad beats volks in equal cover, when both vetted. They are better than "not-good". Not every faction needs elite infantry as stock.
16 Apr 2021, 09:26 AM
#369
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
M8, look at my player card, it's wide open and tell me that again.
7-man conscript squad beats volks in equal cover, when both vetted. They are better than "not-good". Not every faction needs elite infantry as stock.
Perhaps you should reread the discussion, because you clearly do not understood what was being talked about.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
16 Apr 2021, 09:33 AM
#370
Posts: 1563
What?????? I'm sure I set to public. F steam.
16 Apr 2021, 17:19 PM
#371
Posts: 5279
If they are not "squishy" you agree with my point so I am not sure what you want to debate. I have not called the squad as extremely durable by any standards so I am not sure why you make it appear so in your post.
I never disagreed with your point, I was giving credence to people saying they are underwhelming
You analysis is simply flawed.
Paras bring allot more than just an extra entity, they bring Elite carbines/SMG/LMG/Elite bazookas. If it was the extra model that made the difference Ranges who are also 5 entities would not be used.
yes this is exactly what I mean. PARAS bring a lot more to the faction than AG bring to theirs. Rangers are OFTEN regarded as underwhelming BECAUSE like AG they don't bring anything exciting. They are not weak, but they are underwhelming and uninteresting
One does not get assault guards because of the "superior durability" but because of their superior firepower. And their firepower is superior.
Soviet don't lack for firepower. One will get AG Likley for the zooks, as if they want an assault squad they have many options
I suggest you use them or test the version that available in live (which is weaker) instead of theory crafting since as you say you have not used them.
I'm not theory crafting at all. I'm saying that you can't compare them to a unit from a different faction ad say they are fine to dispel others complaints about them. Their attractiveness doesn't care how USF paras operate, it depends on what they bring to the soviet faction. It's relative to them alone
Finally units are balance with what they have to fight and Assault guards can fight axis units just fine. They are probably one of the most cost efficient units.
they are equally weighted against the other units the faction has at their disposal and being doctrinal they are being pitted against other soviet elite infantry in regards to attraction.
Look at it this way:
Both axis factions have panthers. Identical units costing the same.
If one was to introduce a doctrinal Panther for both factions that has 4 levels of vet for ost it would be an improvement and Likley be more expensive, but for OKW it would be a worse Panther and Likley be cheaper. How the unit interacts withing the faction is important as it takes factional subtlies into account. A 6 man squad to literally everyone but soviet is impressive, for soviet its standard. Tank with 200 armour for usf is durable, but for okw it's weak. The game balance is diverse and unit efficiency is relative to the faction. With that in consideration I can see why some may feel that AG are underwhelming for the soviet.
One size does not fit all and just because something is comparable to something in another faction doesn't mean it fits the bill for a different faction entirely with different stats and units and roles and costs.
#stalinwept
16 Apr 2021, 17:38 PM
#372
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I never disagreed with your point, I was giving credence to people saying they are underwhelminyes this is exactly what I mean.
....The other smg elite infantry has armour so in the context of the soviet faction AG guards are actually squishy.
...
yes you have disagreed with my point.
PARAS bring a lot more to the faction than AG bring to theirs. Rangers are OFTEN regarded as underwhelming BECAUSE like AG they don't bring anything exciting. They are not weak, but they are underwhelming and uninteresting
AG bring Thompson a mid range smg/Elite bazookas/grenades assault none of these items are available to other Soviet units
Soviet don't lack for firepower. One will get AG Likley for the zooks, as if they want an assault squad they have many options
AG are not an assault squad similar to shock they have mid DPS.
AG bring more fire power than Conscripts.
I'm not theory crafting at all. I'm saying that you can't compare them to a unit from a different faction ad say they are fine to dispel others complaints about them. Their attractiveness doesn't care how USF paras operate, it depends on what they bring to the soviet faction. It's relative to them alone
When some one claims that:
"They could really use a small buff to make them more viable, especially against tanks."
I am simply pointing that they are as viable as AT paras.
Now if you want to call that comparison or not is your issue. My point that is nothing to indicated they are not viable vs tanks because both Paras and AG are facing the same PzIV.
they are equally weighted against the other units the faction has at their disposal and being doctrinal they are being pitted against other soviet elite infantry in regards to attraction.
Look at it this way:
Both axis factions have panthers. Identical units costing the same.
If one was to introduce a doctrinal Panther for both factions that has 4 levels of vet for ost it would be an improvement and Likley be more expensive, but for OKW it would be a worse Panther and Likley be cheaper. How the unit interacts withing the faction is important as it takes factional subtlies into account. A 6 man squad to literally everyone but soviet is impressive, for soviet its standard. Tank with 200 armour for usf is durable, but for okw it's weak. The game balance is diverse and unit efficiency is relative to the faction. With that in consideration I can see why some may feel that AG are underwhelming for the soviet.
One size does not fit all and just because something is comparable to something in another faction doesn't mean it fits the bill for a different faction entirely with different stats and units and roles and costs.
Only your argument work completely the opposite way, they are far more weighted as a Soviet unit unit because they bring something soviet do not actually have access to, handheld rocket.
USF can have bazookas on RE they are not as good Paras bazookas but they are at least cost efficient. Soviet have access only to 1 shreck in 4 men squad in 2 bad commanders.
The unit is not "Very squishy" and it is "viable vs tanks" to say the least regardless if it is "interesting" or not. Unless you want to argue they "Very squishy" or that they not "viable vs tanks" I have little to add.
17 Apr 2021, 03:11 AM
#373
Posts: 378
snip
Counter point, Universal carriers are lame though.
17 Apr 2021, 05:12 AM
#374
Posts: 4928
Counter point, Universal carriers are lame though.
A Universal Carrier with a DShK would be pretty fucking baller tbh.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
17 Apr 2021, 08:03 AM
#375
Posts: 378
A Universal Carrier with a DShK would be pretty fucking baller tbh.
Not a fair assessment, as anything with a DShK would be pretty fucking baller tbh.
17 Apr 2021, 08:32 AM
#376
Posts: 772
You guys have to agree that all allied units fight the same axis units. Maybe some units fit within particular faction better, but in the end of the day they are facing the same threats regardless of the factional roster. That is why lmg Air guards are perceived worse then lmg paras + AFAIK paras nade is pretty bonkers. I think it might turn out to be the same with assguards. Although paras don't have elite medium tanks in their doctrine, so who knows.
17 Apr 2021, 23:13 PM
#377
Posts: 593
ml20 smokes shouldnt have a cost and no vet requirment.. its just smokes not some game changing ability that kills units
18 Apr 2021, 01:55 AM
#378
Posts: 112
remove useless ram and give t34 a useful ability like vehicle tracking or something
18 Apr 2021, 12:03 PM
#379
Posts: 63
Give T-34 a vet 1 or 2 like Ost tank, it is already in the game
18 Apr 2021, 13:35 PM
#380
Posts: 1392
Give T-34 a vet 1 or 2 like Ost tank, it is already in the game
That should be for a German-t34 ;D
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