Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 11:22 AMMMX

the reload reduction from 5-ish to 3.25 s may sound pretty over the top at first glance, but if you factor in additional delays (wind up/wind down, aim time, etc) it comes down to about a 30% increased ROF. that's pretty substantial for sure but i don't think it is op, simply because we're only talking about the barrage here, not autofire. i'd expect the 120mm to be quite a bit better than the pack howie at close range and about equal at max range with these changes, but we'll see if that turns out to be too powerful. at the very least it's likely that a lot more people will try this thing out again for once after being left in the dust for quite a while, so it should become pretty obvious rather quickly if this buff overshot the mark.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 11:22 AMMMX

the reload reduction from 5-ish to 3.25 s may sound pretty over the top at first glance, but if you factor in additional delays (wind up/wind down, aim time, etc) it comes down to about a 30% increased ROF. that's pretty substantial for sure but i don't think it is op, simply because we're only talking about the barrage here, not autofire. i'd expect the 120mm to be quite a bit better than the pack howie at close range and about equal at max range with these changes, but we'll see if that turns out to be too powerful. at the very least it's likely that a lot more people will try this thing out again for once after being left in the dust for quite a while, so it should become pretty obvious rather quickly if this buff overshot the mark.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 11:19 AMSander93

That's the point. This cheap ability shouldn't be able to almost oneshot (super)heavies. With the reduced pen, its effectiveness against heavy vehicles will be halved and more in line with its cost. It'll still pen the rear armor of mediums at roughly 90-100% chance. It still has significant deflection damage anyway.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 11:58 AMKatitof

How does it compare now to single AT strafe from CAS doctrine?

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 12:02 PMZeroZeroNi

Probably not very favorably anymore. Though CAS single pass is more expensive.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 12:35 PMgeneral_gawain

CAS Anti Tank Strafe = 110 MU
IL-2 Rocket Strafe = 125 MU

Can't see this. IL-2 is worse now while costing more MU (similar to JU-87 Loiter in comparison to P-47 loiter).

Does nobody thinks about reducing the price of an ability if nerfing it heavily? IL-2 Rocket strafe should at least penetrate axis tanks from the rear at 100% chance, that would reduce its performance heavily already since you can't take the shortest possible route for your plane approach anymore. As a result this leads to a higher chance to miss completely. Keep ihn mind this is a strafe after all. For a mere 75 MU more you get the Ju-87 AT Loiter, which will deal a guaranted ton of damage if you use it correctly.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 12:37 PMCrecer13

Everything is easier. Remove "Ram", change the ability of the T-34 and then there are no excuses for the nerf.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 12:35 PMgeneral_gawain

CAS Anti Tank Strafe = 110 MU
IL-2 Rocket Strafe = 125 MU

Can't see this. IL-2 is worse now while costing more MU (similar to JU-87 Loiter in comparison to P-47 loiter).

Does nobody thinks about reducing the price of an ability if nerfing it heavily? IL-2 Rocket strafe should at least penetrate axis tanks from the rear at 100% chance, that would reduce its performance heavily already since you can't take the shortest possible route for your plane approach anymore. As a result this leads to a higher chance to miss completely. Keep ihn mind this is a strafe after all. For a mere 75 MU more you get the Ju-87 AT Loiter, which will deal a guaranted ton of damage if you use it correctly.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 12:47 PMZeroZeroNi

it's not just RAM, in 2v2 and above button, tread immobilize ability(AEC) from team mate are much safer, stronger options.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 12:35 PMgeneral_gawain

CAS Anti Tank Strafe = 110 MU
IL-2 Rocket Strafe = 125 MU

Can't see this. IL-2 is worse now while costing more MU (similar to JU-87 Loiter in comparison to P-47 loiter).

Does nobody thinks about reducing the price of an ability if nerfing it heavily? IL-2 Rocket strafe should at least penetrate axis tanks from the rear at 100% chance, that would reduce its performance heavily already since you can't take the shortest possible route for your plane approach anymore. As a result this leads to a higher chance to miss completely. Keep ihn mind this is a strafe after all. For a mere 75 MU more you get the Ju-87 AT Loiter, which will deal a guaranted ton of damage if you use it correctly.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 12:50 PMCrecer13

PAK-40 stunning projectile. Each side has something similar, but I don't see the other abilities being nerfed to a pointless state.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 12:52 PMZeroZeroNi

Well, CAS single pass can't kill a full Health 800hp tank unlike IL2 which could bring down a 960 HP Panther.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 12:53 PMCrecer13

Oh boy, he can.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 12:51 PMVipper

Why should it always penetrate?

Tanks can penetrate rear armor because flanking is considered good play and should be rewarded.

There is not a lot of skill involved call in planes from a direction. A player with tank outside his base should not punished because his opponent can decide the direction where his planes will enter the field.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 12:53 PMCrecer13

Oh boy, he can.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 13:04 PMgeneral_gawain

Immobilizing a tank long enough to bring your strafe in from the rear is considered good play and should be rewarded.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 13:04 PMgeneral_gawain

We already talking about a penetration nerf from 380 to around 140. But this is clearly not enough for you.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 13:04 PMgeneral_gawain

I want to point out in addition that IL-2 rocket strafe only exists at a commander without any doctrinal tank on its own, so this ability is meant to make up for the lack of the strong doctrinal soviet tanks in tank battles.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 12:59 PMgeneral_gawain

Why CAS AT strafe shoudn't be nerferd in the same way then?

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 13:16 PMSander93

Because T-34 ram. Axis stunning abilities (only Target Weakpoint and variants) are defensively orientated. You can't charge into a (heavy) tank and call down the Stuka strafe with them, unlike with a T-34 and IL-2 rockets. Combined with lower cost, it'd be okay for the IL-2 rockets to be less effective.

Jump back to quoted post2 Apr 2021, 13:16 PMSander93

Because T-34 ram. Axis stunning abilities (only Target Weakpoint and variants) are defensively orientated. You can't charge into a (heavy) tank and call down the Stuka strafe with them, unlike with a T-34 and IL-2 rockets. Combined with lower cost, it'd be okay for the IL-2 rockets to be less effective.