Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

I would like to propose the weapon upgrade for wehr elite inf(Pgren).
Pgrenz could recieve an elite MG34 LMG(like obers) and 3xkars(locks out all weapons slots) for 80 or 85 muni
and their combined arms(vet1) could be changed for suppressive fire or firing positions(similar to guards or cons).
Upgrade could be available after BP2 researced or T3 built.
This upgrade could be bundled with stun nades in Elite troops doc.
I think wehr is the only faction which does not have elite LMGs so, this could be a good addition.
Also, the changes to Luftwaffe supply doc are awesome and I think mabye Close air support doc could recieve cluster bombs
a.k.a butterfly bombs.
P.S: Just ideas.

This commander Update 2021 wont have much effect in team games.

Most of Ost players will continue to choose Elephant commander, simply bc they are forced to. It is the best way to stop Ally waves of tanks and TD. Its a shame, but its the truth.

The same logic goes to OKW, were at least 1 player on the team pick JT doctrine.

Mobile defence Puma should be 4 CP

I agree because while this doctrine is useful, the puma is not very useful because by the time you reach 5 cp you have enough fuel for a StuG or P4

command p4 seems too extreme. will be quite a handful in 4v4 games.

i will just keep the cp removal, keep the blitz, and decrease the vet requirements, and on vet1, main gun gets better AI. maybe a pintle upgrade too.

does tiger ace get the weapon scatter vet too?

I think once they decide on which ability to give the P4 Command Tank either the artillery or mark vehicle, they should give the command tank starting with armour skirts, and adjust price accordingly. IMO it gets focused and dies way too easily before it can vet up to armour skirts

This commander Update 2021 wont have much effect in team games.

Most of Ost players will continue to choose Elephant commander, simply bc they are forced to. It is the best way to stop Ally waves of tanks and TD. Its a shame, but its the truth.

The same logic goes to OKW, were at least 1 player on the team pick JT doctrine.

Yeah I mean the main focus of this game is 1v1 and 2v2 anyway

I think more thought is needed before buffing doctrinal defensive abilities. Promoting camping and positional gameplay is undesirable, at least for me. Nothing against Pak43, I'm talking about new repair headquarters and repair bunker with ridiculous repair speeds. OST does not need more defensive buffs.

Small offtop, while mentioning headquarters: wishing for Urban defense to loose ability of buildings occupation.

I think more thought is needed before buffing doctrinal defensive abilities. Promoting camping and positional gameplay is undesirable, at least for me. Nothing against Pak43, I'm talking about new repair headquarters and repair bunker with ridiculous repair speeds. OST does not need more defensive buffs.

Small offtop, while mentioning headquarters: wishing for Urban defense to loose ability of buildings occupation.

From my experience in playing this series since 2006 I can tell you one thing.

It doesn't matter how powerful a defensive unit or thing is, if it's static it's already dead.

Mobility is the name of the game, if you don't have that then it's easily going to get nuked by an offmap once found out, that or rushed which will end with the same result.

From my experience in playing this series since 2006 I can tell you one thing.

It doesn't matter how powerful a defensive unit or thing is, if it's static it's already dead.

Mobility is the name of the game, if you don't have that then it's easily going to get nuked by an offmap once found out, that or rushed which will end with the same result.

I'd argue that things such as the Urban Defence FHQ break that mold a little, due to being extremely quick (instantaneously) to construct, and having an inordinate amount of survivability relative to its utility.

From my experience in playing this series since 2006 I can tell you one thing.

It doesn't matter how powerful a defensive unit or thing is, if it's static it's already dead.

Mobility is the name of the game, if you don't have that then it's easily going to get nuked by an offmap once found out, that or rushed which will end with the same result.

To some extend you are right, but only if you pick doctrine with such abilities. In 4v4 and 3v3, they are common, but in 2v2 not so much and in 1v1 I see very few reasons to pick such doctrines, well (not like bunkers will work there or anything)

For example since ISU nerf JTs and Elefants became rare in 2v2 matches, which made late games much more enjoyable for both sides. But I'm afraid with new buffs to defensive doctrines this passive simcity like playstyle may be popular again. Guessing that is why balance team wants to give that ridiculous 'timed fuse' ability to 120mm.

Question: Do you think the 251 MOP upgrade should include Forward retreat point (The same ability that USF Major has?)

Personally as a 2vs2 Ostheer player, I would love to have that ability coming with 251 MOP but that would be bias of me.

I want to hear you guys opinion.

Question: Do you think the 251 MOP upgrade should include Forward retreat point (The same ability that USF Major has?)

Personally as a 2vs2 Ostheer player, I would love to have that ability coming with 251 MOP but that would be bias of me.

I want to hear you guys opinion.

No.

Imo it would be better if there was a concrete bunker that worked as FRP and could reinforce. Healing should only be available by droping medic kits.

The current changes of forward healing and reinforcement simply increase blobbing something that should be avoided.

Other faction should have their blobbing "enabling" abilities reduced than creating the same for Ostheer.

No.

Imo it would be better if there was a concrete bunker that worked as FRP and could reinforce. Healing should only be available by droping medic kits.

The current changes of forward healing and reinforcement simply increase blobbing something that should be avoided.

Other faction should have their blobbing "enabling" abilities reduced than creating the same for Ostheer.

Thinking logically here, what would be more likely.

Adding 1 more Forward Retreat Point or removing 4 others?

I think the answer is fairly obvious.

Thinking logically here, what would be more likely.

Adding 1 more Forward Retreat Point or removing 4 others?

I think the answer is fairly obvious.

They do not have to remove them from other faction just toned them down.

MOP is not a good candidate because it mobile. As I posted before a Concrete bunker with the limitation I posted is better candidate

I think it's important that it is the public what kind of player you are, i.e. team games or 1v1, whether you play a lot or not. Otherwise one would not recognize the writer's motives. To me, I haven't actively played 1v1 for a good 1 year. But follow the tournaments and often watch 1v1 games in spectator mode, I know the current metas. In my day I was top 100 with all factions. I still play team games with friends from time to time (4v4) so ​​we're around the top 50. In addition, one should express my thanks to the people from the community who update, patch and balance the game. Since they are not paid for it and they sacrifice free time for it, one should not forget that. Hope my English is not too bad

Festung Armor
The change is good, the doctrine supports a strong P4 game which is currently being played anyway. It can still be discussed whether the East P4 is better than the Okw P4 and whether you need the overhaul, but on the whole the doc is safe to play.

Festung Support
The change is quite good since the dok is now pretty much the same as the Soviet counterpart (city defense tactics)

German Mechanized
Good doctrine also supports a T3 play with P4.

Joint Operations
Yeah its ok.

Luftwaffe Supply Doctrine
That there's a new officer is cool. The drop of Pak and Mg allows the doctrine to be flexible. An offmap ability is always good.

Mobile Defense Doctrine
Yeah its ok.

Storm Doctrine
That fits very good.

251 Mobile Observation Post
The changes are ok but the ability is still quite weak. You should increase the range so that you can safely set the flares (+5).

Assault and Hold
Compared to the other ability (Radio Silence, Valiant Assault, For the Motherland), the buffs are good and the ability is not too expensive.

Artillery officer
Reducing the cost of reinforcement is good. However, the officer does not play because he does not fit into any build order. Since you either build 1mg 3-4Grens and then 1 PzGren or only Pios with Mgs and then Panzergren or just team weapons. The officers are a closerange support unit. However, the PzGrens fulfill this role better, so hardly anyone plays the officers. So that the officers can really be played, you have to integrate them into the various build orders. The best way to do this is to change the model back to grenadiers, remove the active combat ability (diversion) and set the stats so that the officers are a slightly better grenadier quad with 5 man. In addition, he gets all support skills and the view is reduced to normal again. This enables the player to integrate the officers perfectly into the build order.

Breakthrough
For the cost of abilty a good change for sure. Reduce costs to 40?

Command Panzer IV
The smoke grenade change is really nice so you can use the command P4 as a support unit. The two abilitys are both good too. If you want to use the P4 more as a support unit, you would use Mark Vehicle. However, if he is a bit more offensive, Light Artillery Barrage would be more appropriate. Let's see what's coming.

Concrete Bunker
Seems nice.

Counter Attack Tactics
Good changes, now a usefull ability.

Forward Resupply Station
The building is ok but it should be buildable and not only used in occupied houses.

Grenadier Jeager Light Infantry Package
This means that the G43 Grens can be used even more offensively. This enables a different style of play, so you can see more variety. They are not too weak but not too strong either.

Hulldown
Nice to see that ability can now be used.

JU-87 Suppression Loiter
Yeah its ok.

Luftwaffe Field Officer
Same problem as the other officer. Ability goes well with the Air Force officer, and so do the parachute models. Simply put the paratrooper k98 in your hand and adjust the stats to the grens. Then it fits perfectly into every build order.

Mortar Halftrack Incendiary
Bring in Line with other Mortar Halftracks

Osttruppen
Looks good.

Panzer Grenadier Support Package
Yeah its ok.

Panzer Tactician
Change is good, but don't forget the AEC or the M20.

Puma
So that this doc is played you should leave the build time at 40s but reduce the Cp to 4. So that he doesn't come too late.

Relief Infantry
Ability is so ok you swap ammunition for manpower.

Sector Artillery
Nice to see.

Stormtroopers
Why not.

Strategic Bombing Run
Should there be no incendiary bombs, only HE but over a slightly larger radius.

StuG E
Nice to see.

Stuka Incendiary Bombing Run
Makes sense.

Tiger
Bring in Lines with the other heavy tanks.

Tiger Ace
Bring in Lines with the other heavy tanks

Vehicle Crew Repair
Looks good.

They do not have to remove them from other faction just toned them down.

MOP is not a good candidate because it mobile. As I posted before a Concrete bunker with the limitation I posted is better candidate

Well, all Forward Retreat Points are unique for their own specific Armies, the OKW has it on their med truck, the USF on their major, which is a mobile unit as well but infantry, the British one is their forward assembly, of which they can build many, and the Soviet one is their airborne beacon or whatever.

Why can't the MOP or something be the unique FRP for Ostheer? It's different enough not to be a simply copy paste from another faction but also practical enough to be usable as well and not just another throwaway gimmick.

Ostwind needs damage buff. Panzer 4 kills just as fast, so whats the point of making ostwinds????
Its an only anti infantry tank, so it should outperform the panzer 4 at that which it doesnt.

Well, all Forward Retreat Points are unique for their own specific Armies, the OKW has it on their med truck, the USF on their major, which is a mobile unit as well but infantry, the British one is their forward assembly, of which they can build many, and the Soviet one is their airborne beacon or whatever.

Why can't the MOP or something be the unique FRP for Ostheer? It's different enough not to be a simply copy paste from another faction but also practical enough to be usable as well and not just another throwaway gimmick.

Because a mobile invisible FRP that can heal passenger can be very oppressive even for faction with weak infatry like Ostheer.

Because a mobile invisible FRP that can heal passenger can be very oppressive even for faction with weak infatry like Ostheer.

And exactly how much time do you think the other guy will need to realize why your infantry are suddenly stopping from a retreat in the middle of nowhere even if the thing was cloaked?

Or the fact that the Brits, OKW and USF have better infantry and healing options rather than the micro intensive loading and unloading your infantry into the halftrack every 10 seconds compared to something like the USF Ambulance just healing everybody around it or the OKW also having the ability to upgrade medics on their med truck as well.

Can we get goliaths in one of OST commanders???? Please.

Thinking logically here, what would be more likely.

Adding 1 more Forward Retreat Point or removing 4 others?

I think the answer is fairly obvious.

The former may be easier, but the latter is genuinely preferable. Forward Retreat points seem to me as though they cause more harm than good.

G43 on Grens still suck balls honestly. Especially with new buffed PPSH for cons.

I mean, balance team either need to just keep G43 only on PGs because they are good on them and give grens different upgrade instead of G43 or stop being afraid of making G43 strong combat wise on grens.

Its funny to see how vet3 G43 grens are loosing to 1 bar vet3 rifles and almost losing to bolstered tommies (without guns), while vet 3 PPSH cons are able to beat vet 2 Obersts.

The former may be easier, but the latter is genuinely preferable. Forward Retreat points seem to me as though they cause more harm than good.

On smaller 1v1 and 2v2 maps maybe.

But not on the bigger 3v3 and 4v4 maps.