Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback

Like the rifle company change. Playing against cpu, I am trying to go infantry heavy with both CPT and LT with the half track as support. It is a little clunky to heal but the reinforce radius is pretty good once you get vet2.

edit: Double flamer in halftrack seems to work fairly well. Question for those more knowledgeable. Is the range reduced while in the track? I know accuracy is worse. I am trying to see if on more open maps it would be better to bar up or use bazooka inside the half track.

Band-aid update on E8
Pershing still useless. The ability is not per-se useless. Just that the reload and time to aim are really high, won't really hit anything unless the target is stuck somewhere

Considering E8:
Not gonna change much. The "upgraded" penetration will allow it to penetrate Panther on a more regular schedule but with a big downside to the ability. You lose something E8 should have been good at - agility. Focused gunner does nothing except add more micro to a micro intensive faction and really really does nothing. Mediocre armour coupled with one shot more to kill does nothing to heavies.

Focused gunnery: Long range penetration will be 186. Good luck piercing OKW P4 regularly. And in lategame, you can't really dive in with the reduced agility/higher penetration on a damaged Panther or Tiger. With the focused gunner you only overlap the E8 with the Jackson more.

Kudos on a new idea. At least it's not cookie cutting BS the balance team pulls off with every patch.

Why not just increase the survivability of E8. Give it 45 range and increase MG performance on it, along with the agility buff and price nerf ofc.

Rest of the changes are fine. The M3 halftrack is a good one I guess.

I'd buff Pershing's armour to 285 and call it a day. The 4% increase would do him well.
The combined arms nerf/buff is fine as well

EDIT: In my opinion. The E8 does not need to engage heavy tanks and Panthers frontally. It should have the agility and sturdiness to flank Panthers (Currently in Live, the Panther is more agile than the E8, fixed by the first iteration of the update). It should not have a cannon that can wipe infantry, but it should have MGs that can steadily deal damage. The penetration is fine as it is.
Instead of the current iteration E8 change I'd only buff armour to 230 and buff MG and further increase the price a bit. If that is not enough, HP to 800 could also be done with another price increase (420 MP and 150 fuel or 380/165).
So it would have the agility buff, range buff, slight armour and hp buff (HP buff would only really affect <160 dmg sources while the armour buff would add another 4% to bounce chance). Commander/MG upgrade path.
Would put it in a good lineup.
By the time enemy has Panthers, you have one E8 most definitely. It will lose to it directly, but with the superior agility and lower target size, the Panther will not usually win the chase
By the time Heavies roll out, you'll have a couple of E8s, which in tandem can easily flank and bring down a heavy (something I do now when I play rifle company on open maps -> a roaming tank squad).

You could maybe introduce some sort of low muni cost that increases penetration BUT reduces [insert good balance option here]. Wouldn't be expensive, but you'd have to pop it if you really want to engage heavies frontally.

Pershing is a good 'poking tank'. As fast as P4, good AOE, 800 hp to repair, decent penetration. Not a fun of its price and popcap, but it is still pretty decent. Definitely not for teamgames with walls of AT, hordes of panthers and superheavy TDs.

I am not a huge fan of the new ability for the e8. It makes the tank still not as good out the box, and gates it's effectiveness upgrade behind a vet 1 ability that removes the main differentiator between the e8 and the normal sherman, it's mobility.

I would keep the e8 as it is in the pre-patch game, and instead give it abilities to emphasize its suspension (since that is what the easy 8 designation actually refers to).

IE: At vet 1, the tank no longer takes any firing on the move penalty. This will make the tank unique again (I'm honestly not sure why it was removed, as it never seemed to make the tank particularly crazy for it's price.) The base tank itself could use some mobility buffs so it can be more mobile than the panther at least.

Or, one final idea, make it an infantry support tank as would fit in a doctrine like "Rifle Company." Give it the white phosphorus shell the comet has, in a nod to the film "Fury" and as a more aggressive smoke screen dispenser.

Increase the tank's cost if these changes are too much (but I don't think they will be comparing it to what it has to fight).

That is a myth. It is not the weapons but the effective HP of infatry that is different. That is why conscripts start 1.09 target size and grenadier with 0.91

What is about 6 man Guards, Shock Troops or 6 man weapon teams, they don't come with a higher target size (or have armor instead)?
In addition you see it a the roster units, the old Brummbar for example was always meant as a nondoctrinal way to kill multiple soldiers in one hit. PZIV is the generalis medium tank with highest OHK in the game, it would be stronger vs 4 man Grens than it is vs 6 man cons (more wipes). Some of this mechanisms got patched, some still remained somehow.

Pershing is a good 'poking tank'. As fast as P4, good AOE, 800 hp to repair, decent penetration. Not a fun of its price and popcap, but it is still pretty decent. Definitely not for teamgames with walls of AT, hordes of panthers and superheavy TDs.

yeah don't forget the turbo fire vet. pershing is great in 2v2 and probably 1v1 and in certain 3v3 maps. only in 4v4 maps, it's lower range and hp does it in.

with the buffed combined arms, it seems really strong commander.

I am not a huge fan of the new ability for the e8. It makes the tank still not as good out the box, and gates it's effectiveness upgrade behind a vet 1 ability that removes the main differentiator between the e8 and the normal sherman, it's mobility.

I would keep the e8 as it is in the pre-patch game, and instead give it abilities to emphasize its suspension (since that is what the easy 8 designation actually refers to).

IE: At vet 1, the tank no longer takes any firing on the move penalty. This will make the tank unique again (I'm honestly not sure why it was removed, as it never seemed to make the tank particularly crazy for it's price.) The base tank itself could use some mobility buffs so it can be more mobile than the panther at least.

Or, one final idea, make it an infantry support tank as would fit in a doctrine like "Rifle Company." Give it the white phosphorus shell the comet has, in a nod to the film "Fury" and as a more aggressive smoke screen dispenser.

Increase the tank's cost if these changes are too much (but I don't think they will be comparing it to what it has to fight).

no movement penalty makes no sense. usf already have the best tanks on the move. you can easily close out a 2v2 with 3 E8. and even in 4v4, you can spam e8 and t34 for the meme.

the latest buffs seems strong, i hope to see at least a +1 popcap increase per e8

the state of coh2 favors massed units than higher performance single units. e8 is as good as it gets for massed multi role unit

Im unsure about the Ez8 vet 1 change. It feels like changing the E8 into a significantly discounted firefly, I dont think people buy the e8 for that reason and it may not be a effective enough change.

Considering its free, I understand a buff to it may be too strong but imo it dosnt feel right.

This is how I feel after a in-game comparison, not looking at stats.

Instead of this new "gunnery" vet, why cant you just put the range and pen bonus on the E8 tank Commander upgrade together with some fuel cost of 10-15 fuel for the upgrade itself ? So that it come out pretty the same but one can pay extra fuel to get premium stat on range/pen.

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You have no proof to back your claim up with that the Pershing was always meant to be in the game since I clearly remember them saying that the USF would not have a heavy tank, hence why it (and the Calliope) was introduced along with the British and not before that so the only assumption we can make is that they changed their mind last minute.

What is about 6 man Guards, Shock Troops or 6 man weapon teams, they don't come with a higher target size (or have armor instead)?
In addition you see it a the roster units, the old Brummbar for example was always meant as a nondoctrinal way to kill multiple soldiers in one hit. PZIV is the generalis medium tank with highest OHK in the game, it would be stronger vs 4 man Grens than it is vs 6 man cons (more wipes). Some of this mechanisms got patched, some still remained somehow.

Guards have 0.97 target size PG have 0.8.

You have no proof to back your claim up with that the Pershing was always meant to be in the game since I clearly remember them saying that the USF would not have a heavy tank, hence why it (and the Calliope) was introduced along with the British and not before that so the only assumption we can make is that they changed their mind last minute.

Yes,

Original faction's design hit the wall of balance reallity some times ago already.

With the considerable decrease of repair time made on the last patches for every faction, I'm not sure the trade-off durability for repair time vs manoevrability for low armor exist anymore in this game.
I've seen multiple time a KT beeing fully repair some few second later than any USF tank fighting it. Axis players consider USF repair crew like a bonus but its a mandatory feature for a faction that requires twice as much tank as its opponent to fight equally.

i dont understand why m3 half-track adds rifle company seriously. this isnt good patch for rifle company. rifle man doesnt need mobile half track. they just need more fire power or special infantry. i think that rifle company needs a better weapon such as 1919 or call-in infantry such as Rangers.
m3 half track must need to replace another skill.

i dont understand why m3 half-track adds rifle company seriously. this isnt good patch for rifle company. rifle man doesnt need mobile half track. they just need more fire power or special infantry. i think that rifle company needs a better weapon such as 1919 or call-in infantry such as Rangers.
m3 half track must need to replace another skill.

I technically agree with you.

Rifle Company should have been probably Rifleman Field Defenses, M1919A6 weapon rack unlock, M3/M5 Halftrack, something like Marksman/Sharpshooter training that maybe takes up 1 or 2 weapon slots, similar to the British Recon section from the old CoH and either a Sherman Jumbo or 105 since those were the 2 types of dedicated "infantry support tanks" so to speak in real life so they thematically fit here but the Jumbo would have probably been the best and most unique choice.

Instead it's got some of these changes years after it's initial release (Field defenses and Halftrack) and still doesn't make sense why there are flamethrowers for the RE or an E8 when it's supposed to be just a better more maneuverable version of the basic Sherman.

rifle company had had a veteran rifle squad before the launched WFA. i think that ranger have similar role. way better than m3 half tracks

I technically agree with you.

Rifle Company should have been probably Rifleman Field Defenses, M1919A6 weapon rack unlock, M3/M5 Halftrack, something like Marksman/Sharpshooter training that maybe takes up 1 or 2 weapon slots, similar to the British Recon section from the old CoH and either a Sherman Jumbo or 105 since those were the 2 types of dedicated "infantry support tanks" so to speak in real life so they thematically fit here but the Jumbo would have probably been the best and most unique choice.

Instead it's got some of these changes years after it's initial release (Field defenses and Halftrack) and still doesn't make sense why there are flamethrowers for the RE or an E8 when it's supposed to be just a better more maneuverable version of the basic Sherman.

i have a good feedback this commander patch. it is to replace urban assualt company ranger to assault engineer. and Rifle company M3 halftrack replaces Ranger. that is amazing good effectiveness for each other company

I technically agree with you.

Rifle Company should have been probably Rifleman Field Defenses, M1919A6 weapon rack unlock, M3/M5 Halftrack, something like Marksman/Sharpshooter training that maybe takes up 1 or 2 weapon slots, similar to the British Recon section from the old CoH and either a Sherman Jumbo or 105 since those were the 2 types of dedicated "infantry support tanks" so to speak in real life so they thematically fit here but the Jumbo would have probably been the best and most unique choice.

Instead it's got some of these changes years after it's initial release (Field defenses and Halftrack) and still doesn't make sense why there are flamethrowers for the RE or an E8 when it's supposed to be just a better more maneuverable version of the basic Sherman.

Problem with this commander is that you can't give more offensive capabilities to riflemen from balance perspectives. FT on riflemen = OP, more stuff on riflemen = OP.
Imo it would be better to rename the commander Sherman commander and build it around sherman tanks instead of riflemen.

Anyway, Brace before the shitstorm RE+flamethrower on M3 rush Openess.

Problem with this commander is that you can't give more offensive capabilities to riflemen from balance perspectives. FT on riflemen = OP, more stuff on riflemen = OP.
Imo it would be better to rename the commander Sherman commander and build it around sherman tanks instead of riflemen.

Anyway, Brace before the shitstorm RE+flamethrower on M3 rush Openess.

M1919A6s are already present in other Commanders so I don't think they'd be an issue.

And as far as I remember the M3 Engineer combat group with flamers in Mechanized wasn't that OP altho it's been a long time since the so I might be mistaken.

For me the RE flamers just don't fit thematically and there's way better things to replace them with in my opinion.

As far as a Sherman doctrine goes, I mean Rifle is basically all over the place so yeah I'm guessing that me and a lot of other people are purely just taking it for the E8.

But for a dedicated Sherman commander there would need to be more stuff, like Commander upgrades, Dozer upgrade maybe, HVAP/WP rounds for all Shermans, 76/E8 Sherman, combined arms perhaps since The Sherman was initially meant as an infantry support tank, only later when they started fighting the losing the tank battles against the big cats did they start up-gunning and armoring them and so on.

Basically Elite Armor but for the USF instead and a lot of different things.

M1919A6s are already present in other Commanders so I don't think they'd be an issue.

And as far as I remember the M3 Engineer combat group with flamers in Mechanized wasn't that OP altho it's been a long time since the so I might be mistaken.

For me the RE flamers just don't fit thematically and there's way better things to replace them with in my opinion.

As far as a Sherman doctrine goes, I mean Rifle is basically all over the place so yeah I'm guessing that me and a lot of other people are purely just taking it for the E8.

But for a dedicated Sherman commander there would need to be more stuff, like Commander upgrades, Dozer upgrade maybe, HVAP/WP rounds for all Shermans, 76/E8 Sherman, combined arms perhaps since The Sherman was initially meant as an infantry support tank, only later when they started fighting the losing the tank battles against the big cats did they start up-gunning and armoring them and so on.

Basically Elite Armor but for the USF instead and a lot of different things.

I wouldn't call the M1919 an offensive upgrade for riflemen already because that RM/M1919 has been nerfed some time ago and is more a defensive upgrade than anything else.

Giving the M3 to riflemen commander is a bit of an overlap with mechanized and I don't see much people using it on 2vs2 because it requires quite some micro to keep it in the right place to support correctly your moving infantry. To me the M3 is a new waste of slot for this commander.