Us doctrines have always had the issue that they need to supplement base army due lacking specialised units. They have no rocket arty, heavy armour, elite infantry or more traditional arty. Player has to always balance around what of these he can afford as most doctrines only provide one of these, wrong choice will put usf in disadvantage in more ways that say ostheer do.
This is reason heavy cav was popular before as it provided 2 of these, durable tank and elite infantry and reason urban assault was meta, both and rocket arty for good measure. With factions base strengtgs it is sure to cause balance issues if they get them non doc, but i feel like one of these should be given to factions base unit, durable tank being easiest if you ask me, to balance out.
Durable tank isn't the problem, lack of rocket arty is.
We can make up many "traits" that a faction has. I agree on what yours are as well, but at the same time these are not the "one and only trait that defines the faction". Ostheer has small sized infantry squads and an inherently defensive early game. This is shaken by doctrines via Assgrens and on the squad size part via Osttruppen, as well as by some 'recent' core faction changes like PGrens coming earlier.
Soviet's core vehicles do not have any heavier armor. Any standard Axis tank, ATG and even handheld PSchrecks have guaranteed penetration vs all their stock tanks. The faction has, by design, no stock heavy tanks (in the sense of heavily armored) and they are also supposed to play without one. Soviets are supposed to have worse tanks and compensate this by either using their SU85 to keep Axis in check or by amassing vehicles. The doctrines that give them heavier armor are supposed to shake the Axis advantage and add something absolutely new that they usually don't have access to. It therefore goes against the design of the core faction. And this is fine. Because Axis can deal with heavier armor as well.
And I agree, USF is supposed to get their tanks back in action quicker via crew repairs. The Pershing shows us that it can also work completely differently if necessary. If a unit is balanced and will cause issues does not only depend on the faction itself, but if other factions have a means to properly counter it. And Axis do, so I think a "mini Panther" is worth trying. If it does not work then fine by me, but it is one of the very few niches that is still available for USF tanks without making them either redundant or useless.
On mobile so I can't give this the in depth reply its worth atm, but I want to come back to it
USF extremely mobile? In what way? Their tanks are not any faster or more agile than axis counterparts. AT gun does not have any sort of sprint. Pak howi also has agility of a turtle. I mean, USF having an 800 hp/235 armour premium medium with OK penetration and OK AI would not break anything. Especially if you would make the E8 mobile and pricey.
USF Aggressive? Sure, that they are. They don't really have any sort of durability to slug it out.
Using faction traits as an argument is a double edged sword. If you say:
Faction X is Y, then you have to provide the proof of Y and how the proposed change would violate the Y trait.
Mobilility is more than simply JUST speed. Mobility is also not be punished as harshly for being on the move. All tanks lose half their accuracy on the move. Except USF armour, whose penalty is halved for the most part. 75% moving accuracy instead of 50%. Additionally crew repairs lend itself to more mobile armour as repair infantry doesn't have to keep pace wherever tanks are needed. The Scott is the only unit I know of that can barrage on the move. USF infantry is all armed with semi auto rifles or SMGs by default which havs superior moving accuracy. USF is the only faction with a dynamic moving FRP.
Just like mobility isn't just moving speed aggression isn't just brawling. High mobility (see above) and rapidly returning units to fighting condition close to the front enables USF to push constantly, notably when the enemy isn't prepared or recovered from the last fight. There is a noticeable difference between pushing power between usf with all their aggressive and mobility traits and OST who is quite different for example.
A durable MBT is a no go because USF still retains the aggression and mobility but then would also have staying power on top of the rapid repairs.
I have played this game since before it launched, been through every META so far. I recall vividly the many moons of Panther spam to victory because fast and durable is a recipe for imbalance. Being able to out slug what you want and still able to out run your enemy when you need to makes the unit near impossible to kill.
That was a nightmare and they didn't have double rifles to support it nor the best 60 range TD in existence to back it up. They also couldn't self heal or eliminate the devistation of hitting a mine.
The E8 dominates p4s and under as is its job. For panthers and above all 3 allied factions have 60 range high pen TDs. The only allied unit that can reliably slug with big cats the the is-2. This is intentional and giving a mere self healing medium tank the capacity to do so would be game breaking. Even the comet was nerfed SPECIFICALLY so it would lose to panthers and its got the shittiest 60 range TD to back it up and also lacks USF supports and bonuses.
Is it possible to buff Major's RA a little bit? It is quite hard to use the unit at all without losing it
Oh man I would love it if they tweaked the American Officer squads and abilities provided to them.
A lot of potential to make them unique and also provides a reason to rebuild them if they are wiped.
You could have them specialized in certain roles and upgrade them accordingly like UKF Inf Sections:
Anti-Infantry
Anti-Tank
Fire support
Logistical support
It would be cool to see the return of a logistical/manpower management ability like the supply yard from vCOH and its upgrades.
Endless supplies and logistics was a strong point for the Americans during the war anyways.
Honestly who uses the supervise ability on the CPT??? I've only used it when I am on the back foot and I need to mass produce replacements in the late game if I have a manpower float... or try and pop out a vehicle or support weapon quickly to counter something in the early/mid game.
Is it possible to buff Major's RA a little bit? It is quite hard to use the unit at all without losing it
thats pretty squiffy imo. did you know the major arty range isnt reduced with suppression? that means you can wealk up to an MG in a building and call in arty even if suppressed .... id be worried if that wasnt punished by focus fire.....
thats pretty squiffy imo. did you know the major arty range isnt reduced with suppression? that means you can wealk up to an MG in a building and call in arty even if suppressed .... id be worried if that wasnt punished by focus fire.....
We'll all be worried if you lose an HMG on a building to an Major barrage.
thats pretty squiffy imo. did you know the major arty range isnt reduced with suppression? that means you can wealk up to an MG in a building and call in arty even if suppressed .... id be worried if that wasnt punished by focus fire.....
Yeah, it does not, can confirm that and synergy with pathfinders is insane.
I just want the unit to have better usability, because in heated situation you blink twice and major is instantly KIA with all of his homies.
On mobile so I can't give this the in depth reply its worth atm, but I want to come back to it
Mobilility is more than simply JUST speed. Mobility is also not be punished as harshly for being on the move. All tanks lose half their accuracy on the move. Except USF armour, whose penalty is halved for the most part. 75% moving accuracy instead of 50%. Additionally crew repairs lend itself to more mobile armour as repair infantry doesn't have to keep pace wherever tanks are needed. The Scott is the only unit I know of that can barrage on the move. USF infantry is all armed with semi auto rifles or SMGs by default which havs superior moving accuracy. USF is the only faction with a dynamic moving FRP.
Just like mobility isn't just moving speed aggression isn't just brawling. High mobility (see above) and rapidly returning units to fighting condition close to the front enables USF to push constantly, notably when the enemy isn't prepared or recovered from the last fight. There is a noticeable difference between pushing power between usf with all their aggressive and mobility traits and OST who is quite different for example.
True. Though...
75% on the move acc is not really something to write home about in anything beyond 1v1.
The repair crews are there and they do give a bonus, but again, until they are vetted you will have to use echelons to repair with them, who are the only ones that do not get any repair bonuses (except 5 man) with minesweepers. So in the end, sure. You don't need 2 echelons unless you go for Pershing but I've seldom seen tanks getting repaired outside of the base, with the crew. Scott being able to barrage on the move is not really a bonus anymore. The barrage got more accurate and less damaging with the last patch so barraging on the move is counter intuitive because you are losing the accuracy it should have. Again, I use scott in every game, never do I barrage on the move.
The argument "USF infantry is all armed with semi auto rifles or SMGs by default which havs superior moving accuracy." is nonsensical and will just skip it. Same argument could be said about many a thing, concerning infantry. Why this faction only has this and that faction only that...
Mobile FRP. Ok, it's not really mobile as you make it out to be.
A) It's super susceptible to any sort of indirect
B) The cooldown is quite high.
So yeah, it is mobile in a sense that elefant is more mobile than schwerer
You're stating things that are super cool on paper, but in anything beyond 1v1 really don't give any large benefits. If they were, then USF would be played much more. Look beyond the paper, into the real scenarios that happen on the battlefield.
A durable MBT is a no go because USF still retains the aggression and mobility but then would also have staying power on top of the rapid repairs.
I have played this game since before it launched, been through every META so far. I recall vividly the many moons of Panther spam to victory because fast and durable is a recipe for imbalance. Being able to out slug what you want and still able to out run your enemy when you need to makes the unit near impossible to kill.
That was a nightmare and they didn't have double rifles to support it nor the best 60 range TD in existence to back it up. They also couldn't self heal or eliminate the devistation of hitting a mine.
The E8 dominates p4s and under as is its job. For panthers and above all 3 allied factions have 60 range high pen TDs. The only allied unit that can reliably slug with big cats the the is-2. This is intentional and giving a mere self healing medium tank the capacity to do so would be game breaking. Even the comet was nerfed SPECIFICALLY so it would lose to panthers and its got the shittiest 60 range TD to back it up and also lacks USF supports and bonuses.
E8 wins vs OST P4 with about 1/4 of health and vs OKW P4 with a fraction usually. At least from my experience brawling with OKW P4s. It's AI is lackluster and once a Panther hits the field, even if you catch the panther solo with 2 E8s, it does not guarantee a victory (unless the panther is just standing there, not getting any support.... paper scenario)
So yeah, think man beyond the words on the paper.
USF looks brilliant on paper. From 1v1 to 4v4. Problem is, all of it's aggressiveness can be neutered by normal stock axis play. Not even some skillful tactics, just normal day-to-day play. OKW is much more aggressive and mobile. Having durable FRP and a building that can lock down an area easily. I've won against good players, I've lost against bad players, both with OKW and USF. The two factions I play only. One in competitive and the other in casual and I can with certainty say that for all the things you list here as faction traits, go down the drain once you hit real battlefield conditions. Both for OKW (from okw thread) and USF. Point is, USF is strong in 1v1 but anything beyond that, you need good synergy to plug the holes of the faction.
I mean, a couple of games ago, I tried to destroy the Schwerer that was guarding the bot VP point on Hamburger port. Had smoked it so it can't fire back, bombarded it with 2 pak howis, sent RE zook squad, AT gun and still it survived... with around 60% or so HP. I successfully forced retreat of the whole force, pushed the schwerer to completely destroy the morale of the OKW player in my lane, only to fail miserably because the pak howi deals no dmg, echelon and captain smokes are short lasting and the AT gun missed along with the zooks firing through smoke on it. It was repaired by 2 sturmpios shortly after and I got pushed back because I overcommited to destroying a single structure because USF lacks reliable indirects. Does not make it weak, I love USF and I consider it to be a GREAT faction to play, both fun and dynamic. But to state this BS about mobility.... yeah.... NO
EDIT: Point is. Mobility only ever matters in 1v1s. Anything beyond that is durability, firepower and staying power. And even in 1v1. The mobility bonus of USF does not tower over OKW or OST. It's more mobile, sure, but not by a large enough margin. Again. Only gives a bigger edge in 1v1s.
Think man. think!
Anyone else think that the raid tactics buff came out of nowhere? Bit mad that shermans can full capture points in ~3 seconds.
Same thing has been in Vanguard for Brits since launch and I don't think anyone has ever had a problem with it. And that affects infantry capture too... it's a good buff since late game power of that commander is not great. Not that Raid adds much to late game but better than nothing
Same thing has been in Vanguard for Brits since launch and I don't think anyone has ever had a problem with it. And that affects infantry capture too... it's a good buff since late game power of that commander is not great. Not that Raid adds much to late game but better than nothing
No that's fair enough, it was just a surprise to me. Do you think we're likely to see further changes made to commanders before the patch goes live?
I still hope for seperately buildable Reserve Falls, since that 80 munitions on a such munition hungry Company really kills the ability to field more than 1-2 Falls in bigger game modes (or replace a somehow lost squad).
In addition something still has to be done about Greyhound. It seems they don't want to buff its combat stats, but i can't understand why not exchanging meme canister shot with an useful ability that isn't a buff to combat stats like a recon ability (flares/extended vision...). Would make it useful later on.
I still hope for seperately buildable Reserve Falls, since that 80 munitions on a such munition hungry Company really kills the ability to field more than 1-2 Falls in bigger game modes (or replace a somehow lost squad).
In addition something still has to be done about Greyhound. It seems they don't want to buff its combat stats, but i can't understand why not exchanging meme canister shot with an useful ability that isn't a buff to combat stats like a recon ability (flares/extended vision...). Would make it useful later on.
Deffo agree with the Greyhound. Makes sense that it's bundled with raid tactics as a cheap instant call in but would like to see it have some utility beyond that.
The M10 Wolverine/Achilles (both versions) need some more love. I will post this here since I think the USF version is in a slightly worse state than the UKF one due to the heavy MUN need of USF infantry that competes with the HVAP ability.
It currently has a weird mix of low pen, low accuracy, medium to high scatter as well as bad defensive stats (low armor, medium-high target size and mediocre health). On the plus side, it is mobile (especially at vet) and most of all: cheap. It is clearly intended to use the mobility to get rear armor shots and thereby be a TD on a budget.
The issue I have with it is the following:
- The almost only unit it is designed to counter is the Ostheer P4 before vet2 and LVs which are not relevant in the late game anymore. Due to the low base pen, the unit becomes a constant muni sink to function.
- Scaling is bad. If the pen is so low, scaling must be done via ROF. However, the unit gets only a ~14% ROF bonus (due to wind up times) with vet and starts with a mediocre to bad ROF to begin with. Other TDs get way better scaling options.
- Connected with the previous point: Survivability hampers the effectiveness. It has relatively high target size and can be killed by comboing with a Faust. This means the unit only has a short time to be effective before it must retreat due to a counter push. With this ROF, you can't fit many shots into this window. The other option is to sacrifice it as a throw-away tank which is something the game has moved away from (see T34 ram).
- building one in the late game is horrible. The unit makes sense if you get one early and manage to vet it. But if you don't do that or want to build one later for replacement, it won't work. At this point, the M10 has very bad performance and you can't even boost it with HVAP rounds to vet up since you require vet1 to get them in the first place. This is different with the standard TDs of both factions since they already "work" at vet0 without further investment.
- a further oddity: It costs comparatively much MP. This is something both factions, especially USF though, can't really afford which makes the unit a bigger investment than the fuel price would indicate investment.
- scaling for larger modes is horrible as well as with all units that rely on maneuvering. Additionally, these modes have heavier units which the M10 is bad against.
- In UKF builds, this unit can fit in due to the ATG being decent enough to deal with heavy units. In USF builds, the unit is shitty because you need a Jackson anyway. ATGs compete for the same munitions as the M10 while having similar AT performance, making those redundant.
I suggest considering some (not all of the below) changes:
- lower population to 9. This would reflect better at least the current performance and make it easier to fit into builds.
- improve veterancy reload bonus
- lower target size
- improve scatter
- as a unique gimmick, give it a moving accuracy of 1.
- lower the MP/FU cost ratio
- Add smoke canisters (allows more aggressive flanking pushes due to getting out more easily)
- add some utility AT ability like a stun shot or a blinding shot
Obviously the cost must be adjusted to the new performance. I think something between 80-100 would be good enough to still give it a niche besides the regular TDs.
Long story short, the Wolverine is too expensive, too squishy, and too late.
Suggested changes:
Size reduced to 19 or 20, its a M4A3 with a smaller, lighter turret.
Increase Vet RoF to 30% so its actually a 20% increase.
maybe move it to the same requirements as Major. Probably too much.
EITHER:
Power Up
Move Vet RoF to Vet 2.
Add +30% pen at Vet 3 so it it somehow lives, it can upfight like a 45mm AT gun. That will push long range pen to 182, always penning fresh P4s and consistently penning Vet 2 P4s.
If you REALLY want it to kick, add 5 range at Vet 3 so it can shoot Panthers, though its a bit cheap for that.
OR
Cheap Out
Drop pop to 9, reduce MP cost to 270, maybe reduce fuel cost. Increase build speed so it can be reactively built, but DO NOT use as call-in. We don't want any Panic Puma.
I should probably verify some TTK numbers vs P4 and Panthers to prove out the exact numbers, but not willing right now.
For the M10, I really think it would be better if the HVAP shell was replaced by a penetration bonus of 30% that is always active, then switch vet 1 with vet 2 bonuses
USF has already many munition sinks. The M10 is not a super duper ultra fast AT gun, I think that, if kept alive against mediums, it should receive a passive penetration bonus that helps it scale against vet 2 panzer IV and panthers
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