Some thoughts on OKW and their issues.

Reducing the mp cost for Volks back to 250 would be a start.

I don't know if fiddling with their pricing does much to solve any issues, not by itself, anyway.

About your sturmipio suggestion: Easiest way to deal with sturmpio would be to just replace the starting sturmpio with volksgrenadier. If the map would favor sturmpio being the starting unit it still most likely would favor sturmpio being the as first built unit as much. But if the map does not allow OKW to take advantage of early ambush then most of the players would rather just have volk instead as starting unit.

About volks: Again the easiest way to deal with this units lack of late game scaling would just to add option to upgrade mg34 to the squad instead of stgs after panzer authorization has been teched. This way OKW player could sacrifice that dredded op powerspike from stgs that seems to bother so many allied players in order to actually have scalability. Everybody wins.

Or just change their squad formation and call it a buff. Balance achieved lmao

About your sturmipio suggestion: Easiest way to deal with sturmpio would be to just replace the starting sturmpio with volksgrenadier. If the map would favor sturmpio being the starting unit it still most likely would favor sturmpio being the as first built unit as much. But if the map does not allow OKW to take advantage of early ambush then most of the players would rather just have volk instead as starting unit.

This doesn't work for the simple reason that regardless, you will always need at least one sturmpioneer unit, and unless you want to build a 300 MP unit just for repairs, sturmpios need get in the combat ASAP to get a chance to vet and scale decently in combat or at the very least pull their weight early before being actually relegated to overglorified pioneers without non doc flamethrower and good mines

This doesn't work for the simple reason that regardless, you will always need at least one sturmpioneer unit, and unless you want to build a 300 MP unit just for repairs, sturmpios need get in the combat ASAP to get a chance to vet and scale decently in combat

I see your point but this would not take away from those players who want to have their early sturm pio. On the other hand this would most definately help people who play mostly 3v3 and 4v4 and in those modes the ostheer players pioneers are way better use of MP to be in charge of repairing and sweeping.

Maybe the issue of stormpios could be more easily fixed through just matching their stats to those of ostheers pios with mp40s and then for 100mp upgrade they would gain their current stats and weapongs?

This doesn't work for the simple reason that regardless, you will always need at least one sturmpioneer unit, and unless you want to build a 300 MP unit just for repairs, sturmpios need get in the combat ASAP to get a chance to vet and scale decently in combat or at the very least pull their weight early before being actually relegated to overglorified pioneers without non doc flamethrower and good mines

Brits start with infantry section instead of RE. For the cost, just add the difference in mp cost to OKW starting resources.

I am not that big on okw. But if okw volks scale so poorly because off obers, why not let obers come out lmg34 and all or a bit earlier or both. This way you dont "have" buff volks and raise their cost and thus have no need for obers.

I see your point but this would not take away from those players who want to have their early sturm pio.

Probably not, but it would push people who don't to commit a terrible mistake. They are missing out on a vital dps dealer for OKW that they will need to get anyway.
What is the alternative against UKF/USF exactly? Volks spam? Kubel?

Brits start with infantry section instead of RE. For the cost, just add the difference in mp cost to OKW starting resources.

This is not the point, the issue is another. Sturmpioneers are needed, 100% you always need one of them, and their combat value is only shown at early game.

I am not that big on okw. But if okw volks scale so poorly because off obers, why not let obers come out lmg34 and all or a bit earlier or both. This way you dont "have" buff volks and raise their cost and thus have no need for obers.

I agree with this. Obers without mg34 are a waste of mp, it's a bit like having shocks need to pay 80 munitions to upgrade for ppsh. The reason it was changed was the stg 44 ir upgrade but as many people suggested, that upgrade works in a weird inconsistent way and it would be better to be reowrked as call in doctrinal unit

Personally I feel like Volks and Sturmpios are fine and the real weakness is the Vet 5 Veterancy.

Take the Kubelwagon for example. The Kubelwagon requires 3525 Experience to hit Vet 5 while the Universal Carrier only needs 2160 to hit Vet 3. Both units arrive at the same time and have similar costs.

Essentially this causes casualties/losses to be significantly more punishing as you need significantly more experience to reach top peak performance (maxed out Vet) vs any other allied units. While the idea of Vet 5 vet is nice and cool in practice it ends up counter productive as Company of Heroes is supposed to allow someone to come back/Catch up from a mistake and one faction is punished way more than others.

This is especially so for support weapons. The MG 34 at Vet 5 is hands the best MG in the game but at Vet 0 it is easily one of the worst. Even if you do manage to get the MG-34 Veterancy, all it takes is one lucky grenade or mortar shell and all of that hard experience is lost leaving you with overall weaker support weapons and forcing you to crutch harder on your infantry. I would gladly trade Vet 5 for Vet 3 for a less punishing Vet system.

Personally I feel like Volks and Sturmpios are fine and the real weakness is the Vet 5 Veterancy.

Take the Kubelwagon for example. The Kubelwagon requires 3525 Experience to hit Vet 5 while the Universal Carrier only needs 2160 to hit Vet 3. Both units arrive at the same time and have similar costs.

Essentially this causes casualties/losses to be significantly more punishing as you need significantly more experience to reach top peak performance (maxed out Vet) vs any other allied units. While the idea of Vet 5 vet is nice and cool in practice it ends up counter productive as Company of Heroes is supposed to allow someone to come back/Catch up from a mistake and one faction is punished way more than others.

This is especially so for support weapons. The MG 34 at Vet 5 is hands the best MG in the game but at Vet 0 it is easily one of the worst. Even if you do manage to get the MG-34 Veterancy, all it takes is one lucky grenade or mortar shell and all of that hard experience is lost leaving you with overall weaker support weapons and forcing you to crutch harder on your infantry. I would gladly trade Vet 5 for Vet 3 for a less punishing Vet system.

Generally speaking XP value are in mess and need to be looked at.

So is vet bonuses.

The vet system needs an overhaul for the last 5 years.

Personally I feel like Volks and Sturmpios are fine and the real weakness is the Vet 5 Veterancy.

Take the Kubelwagon for example. The Kubelwagon requires 3525 Experience to hit Vet 5 while the Universal Carrier only needs 2160 to hit Vet 3. Both units arrive at the same time and have similar costs.

Essentially this causes casualties/losses to be significantly more punishing as you need significantly more experience to reach top peak performance (maxed out Vet) vs any other allied units. While the idea of Vet 5 vet is nice and cool in practice it ends up counter productive as Company of Heroes is supposed to allow someone to come back/Catch up from a mistake and one faction is punished way more than others.

This is especially so for support weapons. The MG 34 at Vet 5 is hands the best MG in the game but at Vet 0 it is easily one of the worst. Even if you do manage to get the MG-34 Veterancy, all it takes is one lucky grenade or mortar shell and all of that hard experience is lost leaving you with overall weaker support weapons and forcing you to crutch harder on your infantry. I would gladly trade Vet 5 for Vet 3 for a less punishing Vet system.

The majority of OKW's veterancy 1-3 line up with the veterancy 1-3 with the other factions. 4 and 5 are bonuses that are often not combat related or are new abilities. That was changed awhile ago.

The majority of OKW's veterancy 1-3 line up with the veterancy 1-3 with the other factions. 4 and 5 are bonuses that are often not combat related or are new abilities. That was changed awhile ago.

Did you guys also changed the xp worth of units once they get vet4 and vet5?

Did you guys also changed the xp worth of units once they get vet4 and vet5?

Isn't it flat modifier of +20% base exp per vet start? It was worded in a way that didn't really left much doubt, but now you've made everyone unsure.

(also, regarding kubel, it get shared vet, UC does not).

Isn't it flat modifier of +20% base exp per vet start? It was worded in a way that didn't really left much doubt, but now you've made everyone unsure.

(also, regarding kubel, it get shared vet, UC does not).

Yeah but it made sense when the vet values were higher but not when it has been basically brought down, so that's why i ask.
Specially when values are multiplicative and not additive.

Did you guys also changed the xp worth of units once they get vet4 and vet5?

No the XP value change was only applied to certain units. As I said XP values are mess.

A problem with T2 timing imo has more to do with the delayed faust if one chooses T2 than anything else.

Mechanized HQ: Kind of an odd request, but I would like to see the repair pioneers made cheaper or even free. With how absurdly expensive and overworked Spios are, they're a necessity.

Ithink these are true

Here is my idea:
Mechanized HQ split like battlegroup HQ

Puma and Luchs require Mechnaized Upgrade
Waling stuka requires Mechanized upgrade or T3

Now, Battlegroup has more repairs and rocket artillery, while Mechanized gets eaarlier snares

IDK what to do about OKW's infantry
OKW has a very unique infantry game, with your units having poor veterancy scaling but you getting better new infantry squads later in the game.
Volks combat power comes from their sandbags and their flame nades ability to deny cover from the enemy.
Obers have to be strong to make up for volks weak scaling.
Sturms problem is their map dependancy. they are fine for close range maps but on more open maps they die super quick. They are way too expensive to buy late game if you need more repairs thoug, which is really annoying

IDK how to fix volks/obers, but for sturms, I say they should get a cost reduction but a big build time increase, with the build time increase preventing double sturm openings from being too good but the lowered cost allowing for a second stum squad lae game for repairs

IDK what to do about OKW's infantry
OKW has a very unique infantry game, with your units having poor veterancy scaling but you getting better new infantry squads later in the game.
Volks combat power comes from their sandbags and their flame nades ability to deny cover from the enemy.
Obers have to be strong to make up for volks weak scaling.
Sturms problem is their map dependancy. they are fine for close range maps but on more open maps they die super quick. They are way too expensive to buy late game if you need more repairs thoug, which is really annoying

IDK how to fix volks/obers, but for sturms, I say they should get a cost reduction but a big build time increase, with the build time increase preventing double sturm openings from being too good but the lowered cost allowing for a second stum squad lae game for repairs

The problem is not VG or Grenadiers the problem is allied infatry and the mentality to keep bringing more powerful units (see PG) earlier. The game need more nerf and less buffs.

what okw needs is some sembelance of a factional design idea/identity. they have been pulled apart and stictched together som many times that they have awkward strengths and weaknesses without any actiual flow.

volks were never supposed to be the riflemen of the faction, but they have been franken-fucked into their current state because "okw needs x so we have decided to put it on volks with no consideration whatsoever" this has resulted in volks being over costed late game and odd early game with their complete tool kit including a weapon upgrade but priced nearly the same as rifles and tommies who thrash the ever loving shit out of them.

okw units need a role and the faction needs an identity.
and just about everything needs a vet rework.
PERSONALLY id like to see okw vet standardized in bonuses to other factions and the extra 2 levels be filled in with abilities
this gives a chance to make okw unique. still emulate the idea of elite and resource starved (untis can do more things, but economy will suffer)
my suggested layout would be that okw units get full vet at the same established rate as other factions. meaning more or less, in the time it takes for OST to get their doctrinal up armoured p4 to full vet it will also take the okw P4.
the buffs would be comparable as well (not necessarily the same, but comparable)
vet 3 and 5 for okw would grant new abilities (because vets 2 and 4 would be the stat buffs other units gain at vets 2 and 3 with vet 1 USUALLY being an ability)

so statistically, both p4s would get fully vetted and perform the same (same unit) BUT the okw one would have additional abilities. perhaps a smoke dispenser? maybe a ROF buff ability? maybe hull down? who knows!
this would raise the value a player can get out of a unit without simply making the faction units "better" without anything but unit preservation. it would allow a player to take it to the next level themselves and add more spice to the faction.

some other examples of other units that are shared as an example of who the vet rework could work
pak43 currently at vet 4 it gets 10% more damage (which is odd... and stupid...) and vet 5 gives 6.25% more range, which is also stupid and pretty weak....
in my proposal it would look something like
vet 1 target weak point
vet 2 new ability (could even just be a timed stat buff like rotation buffs, although i admit this is a weak example)
vet 3 rotation and rof buffs
vet 4 HE shell?
vet 5 accuracy and rof buff

the full vet requirements would be the same across both factions