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Lefh Counter Barrage Controversy

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MMX
24 Mar 2021, 04:30 AM
#101
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

More trivia, CB activates and tracks shermans and the valentine if you use the smoke ability.

And I kid you not, CB also activates when the britt base howitzers fire as well :D, give that base a nice dose of extremely lethal rounds.


wait what, cb does activate for smoke dischargers as well? that should be quite an efficient way to fake out a counter barrage before hitting back with a salvo of your own. at least for usf and brits, that is...
24 Mar 2021, 05:59 AM
#102
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Mar 2021, 04:30 AMMMX


wait what, cb does activate for smoke dischargers as well? that should be quite an efficient way to fake out a counter barrage before hitting back with a salvo of your own. at least for usf and brits, that is...


Use their artillery against them! Use smoke dischargers and then drive into their lines and the lefh will fire into them!.

I went through all on field artillery and mortars that are in the files, smoke discharges was in I think light artillery. A few weird ones like Churchill's grenade was in one of them as well but as far as I'm concerned it's just the smoke discharge.

Explains why the kv2 isn't counter barraged because it's a different weapon not a artillery ability.
24 Mar 2021, 07:47 AM
#103
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Mar 2021, 02:29 AMPip
I'm really not seeing what sort of point you're trying to make here.


I agree with their sentiment that the "CB requires no micro" argument is totally overblown. It saves you a grand total of three clicks and some map awareness while targeting whatever it wants, which might be a lone mortar squad, when a well placed regular barrage in a target rich environment would usually yield better results. And something being micro-less isn't really the best argument against it, because autofire for many units (mortars etc) is equally micro-less.

I would like to replace but, but actually because I think the ability is meh (it won't hit its intended target most of the time), not overpowered or whatever.
24 Mar 2021, 10:03 AM
#104
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515



I agree with their sentiment that the "CB requires no micro" argument is totally overblown. It saves you a grand total of three clicks and some map awareness while targeting whatever it wants, which might be a lone mortar squad, when a well placed regular barrage in a target rich environment would usually yield better results. And something being micro-less isn't really the best argument against it, because autofire for many units (mortars etc) is equally micro-less.

I would like to replace but, but actually because I think the ability is meh (it won't hit its intended target most of the time), not overpowered or whatever.


On some maps, sure. On 1v1 maps, definitely.
However, try playing port of hamburger or Redstain express or similar maps, against a well organized team. You'll see that due to the density and the overall small area, the CB can have a blast and pretty much shut down any sort of indirect play, while also threatening the frontline units. Hamburger mid and bot VP come to mind. The three areas between the base and the VP, only 2 of them are at all viable to have units in (VP and closest to VP, like the munitions). Putting anything there will guarantee some wipes as those are chokepoints and a high scatter machine like LeFH is destined to hit something and wipe it. LeFH keeps katyushas, calliop, paks, mortars in check while the rest secure the VP. Or you risk complete wipes.
24 Mar 2021, 10:10 AM
#105
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

against a well organized team.

If we're taking well organized teams into consideration, then vet 1 LeFHs do not exist. Or any static howitzers for that matter.


You'll see that due to the density and the overall small area,

And what you are describing is nothing that a regular barrage couldn't do (better). On small chokepoint maps you don't even need recon to guess where to put a barrage with maximum effect. Putting down a regular barrage here would take 2 seconds, and you'd be guaranteed to hit that target rich area, instead of your LeFH potentially going after a lone mortar.
24 Mar 2021, 10:14 AM
#106
avatar of jackill2611

Posts: 246

I suggest making CB cut munitions income.
That way it wouldn't be spammed as much as we see now
24 Mar 2021, 10:38 AM
#107
avatar of Tygrys

Posts: 103


If we're taking well organized teams into consideration, then vet 1 LeFHs do not exist. Or any static howitzers for that matter.


If it's such a non issue for your vision of "high level" CoH2 play why are you so adamantly defending this dumb ability. It would make more sense to get rid of it if it won't affect what you're balancing the game around anyway.
24 Mar 2021, 10:44 AM
#108
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

We could get rid of this ability if both sides would have access to self propeled gun. Otherwise CB is bad in 1vs1/2vs2, and easily counterable in greater gamemode like every static howitzer, so it is time to l2p.
24 Mar 2021, 10:50 AM
#109
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Mar 2021, 10:38 AMTygrys
If it's such a non issue for your vision of "high level" CoH2 play why are you so adamantly defending this dumb ability. It would make more sense to get rid of it if it won't affect what you're balancing the game around anyway.


Would you please read? I'm not defending it. I said I'd like to replace it.
Regardless I just think that the arguments that got raised against it are not very strong and that's what I'm pointing out.
24 Mar 2021, 10:53 AM
#111
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Mar 2021, 02:47 AMmrgame2
isnt it the point? CB should track through fow!
It is a vet1 ability.
and you can avoid by moving your unit, it is still rng even if the first shot tracks...


You think keep kattys and mortars still moving around? :crazy:
24 Mar 2021, 12:06 PM
#116
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003



And UKF have 2 non-doc howitzer then, where do we go?


CB is broken. CB dont should track arty if move after fire.
24 Mar 2021, 12:11 PM
#117
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1



I agree with their sentiment that the "CB requires no micro" argument is totally overblown. It saves you a grand total of three clicks and some map awareness while targeting whatever it wants, which might be a lone mortar squad, when a well placed regular barrage in a target rich environment would usually yield better results. And something being micro-less isn't really the best argument against it, because autofire for many units (mortars etc) is equally micro-less.

I would like to replace but, but actually because I think the ability is meh (it won't hit its intended target most of the time), not overpowered or whatever.


Actually, while you are right, you are also a bit wrong. On paper yes, but in practice, at least in 3v3 and 4v4, CB can be used with great results anyway.

Even if a player knows about the existance of LeFH with CB, its still hard to track it down with everthing else happening on the field. Plus on top of that nature or 3v3 and 4v4 maps, will usually allow you to bombard a choke points resulting some damage.

On top of that, you can just leave LeFH for a while on CB just to vet it up quickly and then comeback to in ones it vet 3.

It gives a lot of pressure for your opponent basically without any input from you. Not to mention, that few clicks arent big deal when nothing is happening, while few clicks during fights + precision of them are really helpfull.
24 Mar 2021, 12:12 PM
#118
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515



And UKF have 2 non-doc howitzer then, where do we go?


Which need infantry dropped flares which take forever to start the barrage. Basically only used against completely static things. Best case scenario, locking a point for a bit. Introducing the base howits from brits into the CB argument really shows the bias and lack of understanding from your part.

EDIT: Besides, it doesn't matter as the mod team is not really thinking anything through so I wouldn't expect any substantial reworks to anything. Or nerfing a broken ability. Even the latest patch is mediocre at best, with only highlight being the QoL changes. Commander changes will probably be quasi at best.
24 Mar 2021, 12:39 PM
#120
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2

I wonder when people will sit back again and finally realize that the point of this thread is foremost about the tracking mechanic, and the whole CB design is secondary.
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