Maxim HMG Suppressing Fire
16 Mar 2021, 01:57 AM
#1
Posts: 4928
Now that we have a manual reload on all HMG's and the Maxim is still the worst gun, is there any chance the forced reload could be removed from the ability? If this proves too powerful, a shorter firing delay could be added, or the ability could be placed back at Veterancy 1.
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> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
22 Apr 2021, 14:48 PM
#2
Posts: 1379
It would make sense to do this. It's not like incendiary rounds where the ammunition needs to be changed out. It's just firing the maxim for longer than usual.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
22 Apr 2021, 15:48 PM
#3
Posts: 1594
Now that we have a manual reload on all HMG's and the Maxim is still the worst gun, is there any chance the forced reload could be removed from the ability? If this proves too powerful, a shorter firing delay could be added, or the ability could be placed back at Veterancy 1.
I'm not sure what Manual Reload being added has to do with it exactly, but trialling removing the forced reload from Suppressing Fire is perhaps a good idea.
22 Apr 2021, 16:08 PM
#4
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
I'm not sure what Manual Reload being added has to do with it exactly, but trialling removing the forced reload from Suppressing Fire is perhaps a good idea.
I *think* he's saying manual reload is a slight buff to all MGs, but the maxim feels that change the least because it's main fire without the ability is pretty trash anyway
At vet 1 the ability's forced reload happens 50% faster. So I think it's mostly okay, they could maybe try making it that way by default if needed
22 Apr 2021, 16:54 PM
#5
Posts: 4928
I'm not sure what Manual Reload being added has to do with it exactly, but trialling removing the forced reload from Suppressing Fire is perhaps a good idea.
The Maxim forces a reload when Suppression Fire is activated, I assumed this was part balance and part so that you don't reload during the ability. But with a manual reload there's only a balance claim to this, and the Maxim is still underpowered.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
22 Apr 2021, 17:06 PM
#6
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
It's intended to be a drawback because the maxim gains pretty decent suppression and the AoE suppression is actually pretty insane with the ability active. If it didn't have a drawback players would just pop it mid push and shut them down with minimal effort.
Manual reload helps all MGs so they potentially don't fire 2 rounds then reload as a push begins. Suppressing fire is its own decent ability that should have a drawback.
Also it should be said that the maxim has really good DPS with the ability on like incendiary rounds. I've noticed it's better in cover fights but incen is far superior when no cover is present.
Manual reload helps all MGs so they potentially don't fire 2 rounds then reload as a push begins. Suppressing fire is its own decent ability that should have a drawback.
Also it should be said that the maxim has really good DPS with the ability on like incendiary rounds. I've noticed it's better in cover fights but incen is far superior when no cover is present.
22 Apr 2021, 19:16 PM
#7
Posts: 5279
By the nature of the ability you actually WANT the reload. Wouldn't want to pop your "do your job ability" and have it fire 3 shots and start reloading. The whole ability is basically unloading at a target and it would be far less effective if that load was only a few rounds..
#stalinwept
22 Apr 2021, 20:11 PM
#8
Posts: 1379
By the nature of the ability you actually WANT the reload. Wouldn't want to pop your "do your job ability" and have it fire 3 shots and start reloading. The whole ability is basically unloading at a target and it would be far less effective if that load was only a few rounds..
Right, and it was great back when you couldn't manually reload the MG. But now you can, so...
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
22 Apr 2021, 20:30 PM
#9
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Right, and it was great back when you couldn't manually reload the MG. But now you can, so...
The ability does a lot more than reload your MG, it's still a great ability
22 Apr 2021, 21:51 PM
#10
Posts: 15
I think that maxim is pretty decent ATM. We shouldn't have our MG unsuported; conscripts (the cheapest non doc basic inf) can spot for her [Also they build a big ass green cover] and the mortars in the same building have flares. If you activate the ability once the enemy squad is range, it will surely supress. IMHO not all MG should be MG42 clones (remember that even MG42 needs the humble pioner for spotting).
One last thought: I feel that early soviet game is kind of underpowered. But buffing maxim's offensive stats isn't the way to go. Maybe they should low his cost (245 ish) and fix the eternal Molotov animation in conscripts.
One last thought: I feel that early soviet game is kind of underpowered. But buffing maxim's offensive stats isn't the way to go. Maybe they should low his cost (245 ish) and fix the eternal Molotov animation in conscripts.
22 Apr 2021, 23:52 PM
#11
Posts: 1379
The ability does a lot more than reload your MG, it's still a great ability
Of course, but the reload being part of the ability was once supposedly because you couldn't reload manually. Now you can, so posing the question: "why is it still there" is the point of the thread.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
23 Apr 2021, 01:23 AM
#12
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Of course, but the reload being part of the ability was once supposedly because you couldn't reload manually
I don't think that's why it's part of the ability. It has more to do with what shadow mentioned:
It's intended to be a drawback because the maxim gains pretty decent suppression and the AoE suppression is actually pretty insane with the ability active. If it didn't have a drawback players would just pop it mid push and shut them down with minimal effort.
23 Apr 2021, 18:09 PM
#13
Posts: 4928
It's intended to be a drawback because the maxim gains pretty decent suppression and the AoE suppression is actually pretty insane with the ability active. If it didn't have a drawback players would just pop it mid push and shut them down with minimal effort.
Manual reload helps all MGs so they potentially don't fire 2 rounds then reload as a push begins. Suppressing fire is its own decent ability that should have a drawback.
Also it should be said that the maxim has really good DPS with the ability on like incendiary rounds. I've noticed it's better in cover fights but incen is far superior when no cover is present.
But that's why we don't see the Maxim very often. In order for their machine gun to suppress, they need to use an ability with a 4-5 second windup. That's ontop of it having a very narrow arc of fire and none of the mobility it used to have. Nobody else has to babysit their machine gun to such a degree, it's an extra micro tax (and muni tax) for basic functionality that is unnecessary.
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> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
24 Apr 2021, 00:26 AM
#14
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
But that's why we don't see the Maxim very often. In order for their machine gun to suppress, they need to use an ability with a 4-5 second windup. That's ontop of it having a very narrow arc of fire and none of the mobility it used to have. Nobody else has to babysit their machine gun to such a degree, it's an extra micro tax (and muni tax) for basic functionality that is unnecessary.
If the maxim would be "good" at suppressing it would be very difficult to take out due to the squad size. If you lower the squad size you risk being looped to death even more. It's just a best case scenario.
Without the ability I think the maxims biggest issue is the arc, not the suppression. I think it takes long enough to suppress but also allows squads to flank it easier. Again though I don't think it could be buffed without the risk of creating maxim spam, at least not enough to notice.
It's more the issue for OKW since maxims come from minute 1 and the ISG only arrives at minute 5ish. No sniper, ISG only nondoc with smoke etc. OKWs opening is alwawys the same since they only spam infantry.
24 Apr 2021, 08:21 AM
#15
Posts: 1289
If the maxim would be "good" at suppressing it would be very difficult to take out due to the squad size. If you lower the squad size you risk being looped to death even more. It's just a best case scenario.
Without the ability I think the maxims biggest issue is the arc, not the suppression. I think it takes long enough to suppress but also allows squads to flank it easier. Again though I don't think it could be buffed without the risk of creating maxim spam, at least not enough to notice.
It's more the issue for OKW since maxims come from minute 1 and the ISG only arrives at minute 5ish. No sniper, ISG only nondoc with smoke etc. OKWs opening is alwawys the same since they only spam infantry.
I think its mobility could be buffed striaght up or via vet (wich is probably) better. This can counteract the small arc, low supression, deathloop, muni for bulleys, inflated price.
24 Apr 2021, 22:25 PM
#16
Posts: 1594
I don't think that's why it's part of the ability. It has more to do with what shadow mentioned:
It's the same reason that Incendiary Rounds require a reload to function, surely? It's 99% intended as a balancing measure; to delay the ability's activation. The fact it makes it less likely for you to reload during the ability was just a small side-effect.
25 Apr 2021, 06:09 AM
#17
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
It's the same reason that Incendiary Rounds require a reload to function, surely? It's 99% intended as a balancing measure; to delay the ability's activation.
Yes exactly. Obviously with the AP rounds you have the fact that it's different ammunition altogether, but even then the balancing part of the forced reload is what's important
25 Apr 2021, 08:41 AM
#18
Posts: 176
What if making maxim has long burst to change target slower, but no more reloading?
25 Apr 2021, 16:50 PM
#19
Posts: 1379
It's the same reason that Incendiary Rounds require a reload to function, surely? It's 99% intended as a balancing measure; to delay the ability's activation. The fact it makes it less likely for you to reload during the ability was just a small side-effect.
Right, but unlike incendiary rounds where it makes sense to reload because you're switching to a different type of ammunition you aren't actually, so it's silly. I think it would make more sense if they loaded in some kind of tracer ammunition for the duration of the ability. Just a visual effect, and you could play it off as the combination of sustained fire and the tracer rounds have a stronger pinning effect because it's scarier or something.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
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