OKW Commander Revamp 2021

This thread is for changes in OKW commander

Here is a guide to OKW commanders:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/241789/okw-commanders#latest

Feel free to add correct information since I have not checked them yet

Emmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
revamp what...?

infiltration tactics missing from special operations doctrine

As for my desired changes:

Fortifications and Overwatch doctrine: allow OKW Lefh and Pak43 to reinforce and perhaps even heal their crew themselves, unlocked at around vet 1 ~ 3, while the rest of the veterancy bonuses (identical to Ostheer vet bonuses) are pushed back. OKW alone, unless deployed next to a Battlegroup HQ, has absolutely no way to reinforce lost models on these static weapons.

Fortifications and Luftwaffe doctrine: flak emplacement should no longer be decrewable. Similar reason as above.

Luftwaffe: make Fallschirmjaeger rely more on their stealth by lowering their effective range, slightly increasing received accuracy, but giving them sniper camoflage (lasts for a short time out of cover) instead of ambush camo (works strictly only in cover), similar to commandos, stormtroopers, partisans. Right now Falls are too similar to Obers in role.

Scavenge doctrine: lower the munition requirements of howitzer barrage to fire more shells, or more precisely make these steps shorter. Right now iirc it needs about 500 spare muni to fire more shells, that's unlikely to happen in a competitive match, unless the player has a bad case of stockpiling. Or just remove this feature alltogether.

Replace Artillery Flares with something else and that's it

Revamp?? what for???

Replace Artillery Flares with something else and that's it

Considering OKW has non-doc recon now, removing them wouldn't be a big deal anymore. Some artillery ability (as in a lethal one) in place would be nice.
Or even better, smoke drop, it fits the special operations theme, while also providing recon, but in a more fair way.

Some my opinion
Breakthrough Doctrine

CP 0 Breakthrough Tactics
35 MU /Coolddown 90 sec /Duration 60 sec
Add unit increase speed buff when ability activity

CP 14 Jagdtiger Panzerjäger Tiger Ausf. B
replace by Stromtiger，Stromtiger grenad be default weapon not ability


Elite Armored Doctrine

CP 8 Sturmtiger
replace by jagertiger

Feuersturm Doctrine

CP 0 Assault Package---remove flamethrower，add bundle with IRSTG44

CP 0 Incendiary Munitions---bundle with flamethrower


Fortifications Doctrine

CP 2 Heavy Fortifications and CP 3 Field Defenses
--remove flak38，bundle bunker（same upgrade like OST），tank trap，wire，and s-mine，2cp
and bundle with Thorough Salvage


Grand Offensive Doctrine


CP 3 Infrared StG44 Package--bundle with Volks MP40，cp to 0

CP 12 Tiger Tank--- aura be default like other aura unit



Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine

CP 2 Heavy Fortifications--rework，bundle flak38 and ostwind，rename AA support squad（maybe），to 0cp，flak38 need any HQ deployed



Scavenge Doctrine

CP 0 Flakpanzer IV Ostwind（look Luftwaffe Ground Forces ）
CP 0 Thorough Salvage（look Fortifications）

CP 9 105mm Howitzer Barrage
180 MU，maybe less ammunition request for more round barrage



Special Operations Doctrine

CP 3 Infrared StG44 Package（look Grand Offensive）




more---maybe Goliath for more commander or be based unit for OKW？

Breakthrough Doctrine

CP 0 Breakthrough Tactics
Show Spoiler


CP 0 Panzer Fussiliers
Show Spoiler

CP 1 Sturm Offizier
Show Spoiler

CP 12 Assault Artillery
200 MU

CP 14 Jagdtiger Panzerjäger Tiger Ausf. B
Show Spoiler

General:
A situational commander that does not really like a Breakthrough commander. Assault artillery comes very late and JT is more of defensive vehicle than an offensive one that imo does not fit the theme.

Suggestion:

CP 0 Breakthrough Tactics

I find this ability extremely situational since there is no cap bonus and imo it could use some change or a redesign and since one needs MU to upgrade the Fuss.

Ability could now effect also kubel with a lower modifier what is ideal for decaping (with a maybe a decresse in duration or moving to CP 1)
Or
Becomes a passive (imo COH2 could use more passive abilities) that is scales with tech. For instance a +5% decap bonus for each truck set up

CP 0 Panzer Fussiliers

Unit is a mess, not good at fights early, to expensive at 295/80 compared to Penal at late game, and the AT package is situational.

A redesign imo could help.

Unit now becomes a scout unit/support unit, start 6 men,6 K98, at 240 MP, sight to 40/50, flare to from start, vet 1 replace with a light mortar barrage.

Can upgrade with single G43 that also provide has stationary cloak and can fire a single shot (range 40-45) that can target only sniper and kill them making them the ideal OKW sniper counter.

The ability could also allow the AT Fusilier to be build as a Separate unit for 300 manpower, as 5 men squad, unit start able to fuasts and can upgrade with shcrecks, Vet bonus changed to fit the role. Faust could either be an ability but firing 2 faust instead of one or the unit could toggle in equipping 2 faust (for not cost) firing a single shot each at range 40-45 (with no snare effect) and then going in CD.

The changes aim to allow a clear role for this unit and the tools for better balancing.

Sturm Offizier

Lower pop and XP. The unit again feels situational and not much of "assault unit" since it armed with rifles and pistol...

Unit start as 5 men unit with 5 MP40. Gain or upgrade with 2 ST 44

Target them cost reduce to 30.

Force Retreat either greatly reduced cost 30-20 or enemy debuff removed. The ability is inferior to one available to Commissar.

Assault Artillery

Another strong ability in a commander with Super heavies that also comes too late for "breakthrough" commander.

Redesign the ability as 6-8 CP ability replacing the heavy artillery with mortar shells (HE or Incendiary) lowering cost 100-120.


CP 14 Jagdtiger Panzerjäger Tiger Ausf. B

JT could imo use some change.

Engine improvements upgrade feel like a weird either removed or make it give the bonuses as timed active ability.

Reduce cost of 28.3kg APCBC-HE Shells to 70

Most immortally I would like to see unit move to Armor Elite doctrine and SturmTiger a pure breakthrough unit move to this commander. Then Sturm tiger could be buffed to become more reliable and have better synergy with both AT Fuss and Assault artillery. In addition JT feel far more suited for Elite armor.

If the combination of resources vehicle and JT is too strong the resources vehicles could be moved scavenger where it fits better.

Alternatively the ST could be moved to breakthrough, JT to over-watch replacing the Lefh. Elite armor could get Vehicle detection similar to soviet ability or hammer trucking or Ostwind or Stuka strafe (AT or AI).

Breakthrough Doctrine
Most immortally I would like to see unit move to Armor Elite doctrine and SturmTiger a pure breakthrough unit move to this commander. Then Sturm tiger could be buffed to become more reliable and have better synergy with both AT Fuss and Assault artillery. In addition JT feel far more suited for Elite armor.

I think that change in particular is good and also fits better the themes of both commanders, however the JT should probably not get heat shells.

infiltration tactics missing from special operations doctrine

Thanks will fix soon

As for my desired changes:

Fortifications and Overwatch doctrine: allow OKW Lefh and Pak43 to reinforce and perhaps even heal their crew themselves, unlocked at around vet 1 ~ 3, while the rest of the veterancy bonuses (identical to Ostheer vet bonuses) are pushed back. OKW alone, unless deployed next to a Battlegroup HQ, has absolutely no way to reinforce lost models on these static weapons.

Fortifications and Luftwaffe doctrine: flak emplacement should no longer be decrewable. Similar reason as above.

Luftwaffe: make Fallschirmjaeger rely more on their stealth by lowering their effective range, slightly increasing received accuracy, but giving them sniper camoflage (lasts for a short time out of cover) instead of ambush camo (works strictly only in cover), similar to commandos, stormtroopers, partisans. Right now Falls are too similar to Obers in role.

Scavenge doctrine: lower the munition requirements of howitzer barrage to fire more shells, or more precisely make these steps shorter. Right now iirc it needs about 500 spare muni to fire more shells, that's unlikely to happen in a competitive match, unless the player has a bad case of stockpiling. Or just remove this feature alltogether.

I think that change in particular is good and also fits better the themes of both commanders, however the JT should probably not get heat shells.

I do not like AT HEAT shell because they are actually very good AI also. I would rather turn them into a passive ability that either increases the penetration values of the guns by around 10% or adding 25% deflection damage. But I have not got to that commander yet .

Replace Artillery Flares with something else and that's it

This.

I do not like AT HEAT shell because they are actually very good AI also. I would rather turn them into a passive ability that either increases the penetration values of the guns by around 10% or adding 25% deflection damage. But I have not got to that commander yet .

Might be a way to go, but passive buffs are not great design since they require no input. Switchable rounds like the Jackson ones could be useful instead, but this would just again copy mechanics from other factions when there is no need to do so.

The current shells are fine in my opinion (I don't own the commander, so I can just talk from the receiving end), I just think they should not go on a JT.
Could you explain how they are too good vs infantry? Do you mean because of the 30% damage boost on e.g. the P4? That should actually be fixable by target table or a modifier on the AoE damages (0,77 will return the damage value back to 1).
Overall players buy them for the AT damage though, so it is a rather small issue imo. Especially since OKW has no dedicated late game AI tank.

Might be a way to go, but passive buffs are not great design since they require no input. Switchable rounds like the Jackson ones could be useful instead, but this would just again copy mechanics from other factions when there is no need to do so.

Imo if the buff are small and in line with commander design passive bonus could work.

In a way some already exist like the bonus on USF armor elite for crews.

For instance I would expect Ro Arty mortar pits to perform better and I would expect OKW "elite" armor vehicles to perform better.

The current shells are fine in my opinion (I don't own the commander, so I can just talk from the receiving end), I just think they should not go on a JT.
Could you explain how they are too good vs infantry? Do you mean because of the 30% damage boost on e.g. the P4? That should actually be fixable by target table or a modifier on the AoE damages (0,77 will return the damage value back to 1).
Overall players buy them for the AT damage though, so it is a rather small issue imo. Especially since OKW has no dedicated late game AI tank.

Yes you are correct, I am talking about the extra damage that effects mostly PzIV and KT increasing the AOE kill radius primarily.

Imo a simply penetration buff would allow PZIV/JT to see more use vs heavily armored allied vehicles and would be enough.

It would suggest to post ideas in this existing OKW thread than to create a new one:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/107343/smartie-s-commander-reworks-okw

It would suggest to post ideas in this existing OKW thread than to create a new one:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/107343/smartie-s-commander-reworks-okw

I thought of that earlier. Smartie has already a lot of work in his thread. It looks and reads much better. No need for another thread about the same subject that is considerably worse.

My Ideas for OKW Changes

OKW -Fortifications & Misc. Fixes


Show Spoiler

Replace Artillery Flares with something else and that's it

Just put them inside the Command PV so no longer infinite range and then you can add something like the Sturm Offizer.