The VSL grenadier nerf basically make this commander from everyone had this in loadout to a no show commander.
Ideas:
Bringing the halftrack to be more in line with its respective ultra light vehicle counterparts like the clown car, carrier, etc.by improving the timing its out in the field. The halftrack will now be one of the reason for picking this commander by making it available at the start instead of a need to tech up, its bulletin blitzkrieg will also makes more sense. Nerfing it easily by increasing the cost if it arrives too early.
Some buffs to the vsl or just stick g43 somewhere in this commander, maybe replace the halftrack.
It will retain the theme of best german infantry w/o relying on stealth and as a very heavy munition commander.
If the g43 is too "op" in this commander, I'm actually ok to remove PG utility or just removing vsl altogether.
Or because vsl is just like buying volks, they can now build sandbags and have incendiary grenades
Or sprint.
German Infantry Commander adjustments
7 Mar 2021, 01:48 AM
#1
Posts: 163
7 Mar 2021, 08:05 AM
#3
Posts: 290
The VSL grenadier nerf basically make this commander from everyone had this in loadout to a no show commander.
Some buffs to the vsl or just stick g43 somewhere in this commander, maybe replace the halftrack.
It will retain the theme of best german infantry w/o relying on stealth and as a very heavy munition commander.
If the g43 is too "op" in this commander, I'm actually ok to remove PG utility or just removing vsl altogether.
HT on this commander for myself is the best thing.
7 Mar 2021, 09:28 AM
#4
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
The VSL grenadier nerf basically make this commander from everyone had this in loadout to a no show commander.
Some buffs to the vsl or just stick g43 somewhere in this commander, maybe replace the halftrack.
It will retain the theme of best german infantry w/o relying on stealth and as a very heavy munition commander.
If the g43 is too "op" in this commander, I'm actually ok to remove PG utility or just removing vsl altogether.
Now put 250 behind them and try again.
VSL purpose was to trade firepower for durability, not to completely overshadow and replace LMG42.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 Mar 2021, 09:53 AM
#5
Posts: 1289
Ok so i cant just go grens ftw anymore. They extra hp doesnt do jack apperently. Free healing doesnt save ammo for other things like mines off maps and nades.
Does ost need to be able to 1 volly infantry models? Its not like they lack firepower in anyway shape or form.
Does ost need to be able to 1 volly infantry models? Its not like they lack firepower in anyway shape or form.
7 Mar 2021, 09:57 AM
#6
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Ok so i cant just go grens ftw anymore. They extra hp doesnt do jack apperently. Free healing doesnt save ammo for other things like mines off maps and nades.
Does ost need to be able to 1 volly infantry models? Its not like they lack firepower in anyway shape or form.
No, you can't spam mainline inf like no tomorrow in a faction that isn't meant to spam mainline inf.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Mar 2021, 01:25 AM
#7
Posts: 163
HT on this commander for myself is the best thing.
I'm more of a 222 spammer and feels the german clown car arrives too late. It is vulnerable to small arms fire and the 222 timings are close that I feel its not worth it. Any tips?
9 Mar 2021, 03:04 AM
#8
Posts: 1954
No, you can't spam mainline inf like no tomorrow in a faction that isn't meant to spam mainline inf.
I think he was just being sarcastic. When not playing with friends, this is still one of my favorite commanders. At vet 3, 5-man Grens still have a ton of staying power and help keep anything from diving werfers. The fragmentation bomb isn't the best but it still decrews howitzers. I just finished a game using that commander and had a k/d of almost 2. If this commander is terrible, I'd hate to see what some people's idea of "balanced" is.
9 Mar 2021, 05:15 AM
#9
Posts: 163
I think he was just being sarcastic. When not playing with friends, this is still one of my favorite commanders. At vet 3, 5-man Grens still have a ton of staying power and help keep anything from diving werfers. The fragmentation bomb isn't the best but it still decrews howitzers. I just finished a game using that commander and had a k/d of almost 2. If this commander is terrible, I'd hate to see what some people's idea of "balanced" is.
I played well once on this commander so it is still very strong and balanced!! I would rather pick this than JI commander every game!!
9 Mar 2021, 15:27 PM
#10
Posts: 1954
I played well once on this commander so it is still very strong and balanced!! I would rather pick this than JI commander every game!!
Weak attempt at sarcasm. I use this and Storm most of the time. If you think this commander is weak, you clearly haven't played most of the Soviet or USF commanders. I'd bet you probably haven't played any of the allied factions.
In a long game, I still get 20-40 kills with a VSL squad. The -20% damage means they are a lot harder to wipe with indirect. I'm sure I lose fewer of these than any other mainline infantry.
9 Mar 2021, 16:14 PM
#11
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Any perceived less use of this commander is more likely because people jumped ship after 5 men grens were no longer OP - doesn't mean it needs corresponding buffs. It's still a great commander on the spectrum of options with 250 as a shock unit, elite infantry, and IMO one of the best off maps. Not to mention 5 Men grens still give you extra survivability so you don't have to be on top of retreats as much and the STG is good on maps where you don't need the long range LMG as much.
9 Mar 2021, 16:24 PM
#12
Posts: 281
Thats a no, the 250 would be insanly broken without tech requirements,
you had to lower its armor significantly and remove the lockdown so small arms can kill it
I agree that german inf could need adjustments but this is not the way to go
you had to lower its armor significantly and remove the lockdown so small arms can kill it
I agree that german inf could need adjustments but this is not the way to go
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10 Mar 2021, 11:22 AM
#13
Posts: 290
I'm more of a 222 spammer and feels the german clown car arrives too late. It is vulnerable to small arms fire and the 222 timings are close that I feel its not worth it. Any tips?
The HT takes 50% less damage instantly when u deploy it, so it can tank 3 at grenades without dying. At star 1 it works as reinforcement truck that is 10x better than the normal HT
10 Mar 2021, 18:14 PM
#14
Posts: 1563
Any perceived less use of this commander is more likely because people jumped ship after 5 men grens were no longer OP - doesn't mean it needs corresponding buffs. It's still a great commander on the spectrum of options with 250 as a shock unit, elite infantry, and IMO one of the best off maps. Not to mention 5 Men grens still give you extra survivability so you don't have to be on top of retreats as much and the STG is good on maps where you don't need the long range LMG as much.
They loose to 7 man cons from mid to long at vet 0 and at vet 3 across all ranges. Let that sink in a 270mp+60mu gets it's ass beaten by 258mp+50mu unit. IDK about being "no longer OP" i'd like to see a bit more consistency. may be we should change the con 7*12>80 ing people.
10 Mar 2021, 20:00 PM
#15
Posts: 1289
They loose to 7 man cons from mid to long at vet 0 and at vet 3 across all ranges. Let that sink in a 270mp+60mu gets it's ass beaten by 258mp+50mu unit. IDK about being "no longer OP" i'd like to see a bit more consistency. may be we should change the con 7*12>80 ing people.
If you want to talk price you leave out quite a bit for cons. They require t3 plus side tech or t4 to go 7th man. It quite a big difference, To my knowlidge grens only require cp. Vsl also gives more then just the 5th model.
The stock units supporting grens from start to finish are also of higher quility then what cons get. This should be taken into account.
Imho ost has no problem dishing out damage its the faction with the most wipe potential out of all of them. The problem/balance is their small squads cant take a beating, vsl fixes that. But that doesnt mean it should make grens into a move longe range units that can act independantly at all times.
10 Mar 2021, 20:28 PM
#16
Posts: 1594
If you want to talk price you leave out quite a bit for cons. They require t3 plus side tech or t4 to go 7th man. It quite a big difference, To my knowlidge grens only require cp. Vsl also gives more then just the 5th model.
The stock units supporting grens from start to finish are also of higher quility then what cons get. This should be taken into account.
Imho ost has no problem dishing out damage its the faction with the most wipe potential out of all of them. The problem/balance is their small squads cant take a beating, vsl fixes that. But that doesnt mean it should make grens into a move longe range units that can act independantly at all times.
I don't think the VSL upgrade gives anything except a fifth man with an STG (and free healing) now, does it? The RA bonus was removed, and I thought the cooldown reduction was removed a while ago?
Not to say a fifth man with an STG is a bad thing, of course, the extra durability is really nice despite the damage improvement being fairly unimpressive.
10 Mar 2021, 22:25 PM
#17
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I don't think the VSL upgrade gives anything except a fifth man with an STG (and free healing) now, does it? The RA bonus was removed, and I thought the cooldown reduction was removed a while ago?
Not to say a fifth man with an STG is a bad thing, of course, the extra durability is really nice despite the damage improvement being fairly unimpressive.
It also gives 10% accuracy bonus.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
10 Mar 2021, 22:35 PM
#18
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I don't think the VSL upgrade gives anything except a fifth man with an STG (and free healing) now, does it? The RA bonus was removed, and I thought the cooldown reduction was removed a while ago?
Not to say a fifth man with an STG is a bad thing, of course, the extra durability is really nice despite the damage improvement being fairly unimpressive.
"Veteran Squad Leaders (New Ability)
In keeping with the Infantry theme of the doctrine, the following ability has been created. This ability provides Wehrmacht line infantry with a five-man upgrade in the case of Pioneers and Grenadiers to increase durability and potency. Panzergrenadiers can be upgraded with a support package to provide support capabilities.
-Requires 2 CPs
-Pioneers can be upgraded to a 5 man squad for 30 munitions.
-Grenadier squad can be upgraded to 5 men for 60 munitions.
-The Grenadier squad leader has a transferable G43 and grants a -15% reduction on weapon cooldowns,
"Received Accuracy bonus from Veteran Squad Leader removed"
"Veteran Squad Leader G43 exchanged for Volksgrenadier StG 44"
(No accuracy bonus, contrary to a claim)
10 Mar 2021, 22:44 PM
#19
Posts: 1594
"Veteran Squad Leaders (New Ability)
In keeping with the Infantry theme of the doctrine, the following ability has been created. This ability provides Wehrmacht line infantry with a five-man upgrade in the case of Pioneers and Grenadiers to increase durability and potency. Panzergrenadiers can be upgraded with a support package to provide support capabilities.
-Requires 2 CPs
-Pioneers can be upgraded to a 5 man squad for 30 munitions.
-Grenadier squad can be upgraded to 5 men for 60 munitions.
-The Grenadier squad leader has a transferable G43 and grants a -15% reduction on weapon cooldowns,-10% received accuracyand reduces the cost of Medical Kits to 0 munitions. This upgrade locks out the MG42 upgrade."
"Received Accuracy bonus from Veteran Squad Leader removed"
"Veteran Squad Leader G43 exchanged for Volksgrenadier StG 44"
(No accuracy bonus, contrary to a claim)
Oh, that's interesting, I thought the Cooldown bonus had been removed at some stage.
11 Mar 2021, 00:53 AM
#20
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
They loose to 7 man cons from mid to long at vet 0 and at vet 3 across all ranges. Let that sink in a 270mp+60mu gets it's ass beaten by 258mp+50mu unit. IDK about being "no longer OP" i'd like to see a bit more consistency. may be we should change the con 7*12>80 ing people.
I just did a test in cheat mod and 5 Men Grens won 3/4 at medium-long range at Vet 3. The one they lost was because Cons got a lucky early model kill and swung the engagement. You're welcome to provide evidence to the contrary but I don't really believe that they lose at longer ranges. Both upgrades add an extra model and Grens natively have better long range DPS. The STG also has better long DPS than the G43 as well so I don't see how losing the 10% Racc means they suddenly lose to Cons long range without the LMG42.
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