Buff Ost and Sov artillery guns (LefH 105mm and ML-20 152mm)

Is this some kinda witty sarcasm that I dont get

Please buff the Lefh that is an insane wipe machine, present in more than 80% of 2vs2 and above matches, combines pinpoint accuracy with massive area coverage?

Geez, and I thought Id seen it all. What comes next? Pls buff skillplanes?

Nerf the LeFH to ML20 levels, remove CB and call it a day.

We don't need to incentivise further arty spam in team games.

I don't see the ML20 that much but the LeFH is in about 70-80% of the games I play these days.

In a way there are. Stopping a barrage make the gun cooldown faster than letting finish the barrage.

True but also not really worthwhile, since it cools down sooner rather than cycling faster. right now for the LEFH for example, it has 70 seconds of reload -> 9 or 10 shells for a firing time of 30sec approx; maybe a change to 4 shells fired over 12 seconds -> reload 30-35 seconds, approaching pack-howi barrage timing, could work.

I could imagine it being competitive in 1v1 against regular rocket arty, possibly, against double AT gun build, since smaller reloads mean you can keep chasing them around with barrages.

it would also make long random barrages that pick off squads in a huge area over a very long time in teamgames less prevalent, which is annoying to fight because you can't really do anything about it except hope to be lucky.

These guy are shit in 1v1 because they have drunk accuracy, shitty damage.
They are great in team games, and super good in large team games, because of their drunk accuracy, they can always kill some unintended target.

Nerf the LeFH to ML20 levels, remove CB and call it a day.

We don't need to incentivise further arty spam in team games.

I don't see the ML20 that much but the LeFH is in about 70-80% of the games I play these days.

1000% agree, though it should also be accompanied by something to reduce the spammability of allied doctrinal arties in 3s and 4s, like Priests, Sextons, CalliOPies, etc

Nerf the LeFH to ML20 levels, remove CB and call it a day.

We don't need to incentivise further arty spam in team games.

I don't see the ML20 that much but the LeFH is in about 70-80% of the games I play these days.

this

Howis are easy to fix I've already had a proposal

1) Limit them to 1 per player (fixed problem of arty spam in teamgames).
2) Lower amount of shells per barrage, but lower cooldown on barrage.
3) Remove counter-barrage from LeFH. Both LeFH and ML-20 could have pressition barrage, only few shells but with lower scatter and lower range.
4) Add ability to self-destoy them, in order to be able to relocate them (like UKF emplacements).
5) Maybe even buff them slitgtly, because of all other changes.

Mobile howis like prist\Sextons
1) Same with barrages
2) Limit them to 2 per player
3) Increase their pop-cap, so if you go full mobile arty you sacrifice at least something.

Rocket arty:
Its alright, only Caliope armor and HP should be lowered to allow easier counter play. But its pretty much acknowledged by everyone.

Howis are easy to fix I've already had a proposal

1) Limit them to 1 per player (fixed problem of arty spam in teamgames).
2) Lower amount of shells per barrage, but lower cooldown on barrage.
3) Remove counter-barrage from LeFH. Both LeFH and ML-20 could have pressition barrage, only few shells but with lower scatter and lower range.
4) Add ability to self-destoy them, in order to be able to relocate them (like UKF emplacements).
5) Maybe even buff them slitgtly, because of all other changes.

Mobile howis like prist\Sextons
1) Same with barrages
2) Limit them to 2 per player
3) Increase their pop-cap, so if you go full mobile arty you sacrifice at least something.

Rocket arty:
Its alright, only Caliope armor and HP should be lowered to allow easier counter play. But its pretty much acknowledged by everyone.

theres a bit of a discrepancy here... the most survivable ones you are allowed double of? at the absolute most any axis team could field is 4 but the allies could field 8? what in the actual fuck?

theres a bit of a discrepancy here... the most survivable ones you are allowed double of? at the absolute most any axis team could field is 4 but the allies could field 8? what in the actual fuck?

Because mobile howis, has much less range then static ones, meaning that they are tecnically much easier to conter and dive for. Not to mention, that countering thouse one arent requare specific commander choses to counter.

They might have more survivability on paper but is a bit of overextension. Yes, static ones are very easy to destroy but ONLY with commanders and muni to spend. When you dont have thouse options, they are litteraly uncounterable in teamgames.

Not to mention that they are more expensive and I litterary said that player could have 2 of them for the significant cost of pop-cap, considering all the advantages and disadvatanges.

Plus on top of that, unlike ML-20 and LeFH both Prist\Sexton arent presented in a shit load of commanders. And USF\UKS are lacking in terms strong non-doc inderect fire units, so they can have it a bit on easier side.

But sure, if you want to bring Prist\Sexton on the same perfomance level (or at least close to) of ML-20\LeFH it sure can be limited to 1 per player.

Because mobile howis, has much less range then static ones, meaning that they are tecnically much easier to conter and dive for. Not to mention, that countering thouse one arent requare specific commander choses to counter.

They might have more survivability on paper but is a bit of overextension. Yes, static ones are very easy to destroy but ONLY with commanders and muni to spend. When you dont have thouse options, they are litteraly uncounterable in teamgames.

Not to mention that they are more expensive and I litterary said that player could have 2 of them for the significant cost of pop-cap, considering all the advantages and disadvatanges.

Plus on top of that, unlike ML-20 and LeFH both Prist\Sexton arent presented in a shit load of commanders. And USF\UKS are lacking in terms strong non-doc inderect fire units, so they can have it a bit on easier side.

But sure, if you want to bring Prist\Sexton on the same perfomance level (or at least close to) of ML-20\LeFH it sure can be limited to 1 per player.

the mobility more than makes up for discrepancies. limit them to 1 and dont increase their pop. range or no there is no reason for one side to be able to field double the arty if we are hard capping them.
it would be like saying since allied TDs are so strong axis can have double the heavy tanks.

the mobility more than makes up for discrepancies. limit them to 1 and dont increase their pop. range or no there is no reason for one side to be able to field double the arty if we are hard capping them.
it would be like saying since allied TDs are so strong axis can have double the heavy tanks.

Actually not really. If it was so, then we would have seen both Sexton\Prist every single game in teamgames, unlike LeFH\B4\ML20 (less so) which you can see every game pretty much. Sure it due to the fact that they are not in less meta commanders, but still. Royal arty was used primiry because of valentine and cheap call-in arty and inf company is more or less decent commander but because of LMGs\MTHT and field defences.

Mobile arty becomes good only when its vetted + on top of that it cant counter howis without vet, because it will be out of range most of the time and being in range will requare you to almost sit in the front line.

I've tryed to use Sexton\Prist and compare them to ML-20\LeFH\B4 and over-all its incomparably harder to use them effectively. Hell, even enemy inderect rocket arty can damage them quite significantly.

I'm against arty spam myself, but right now both prist\sexton arent sufficient enouth to be locked to 1 per player, while LeFH\ML-20\B4 are more then enouth just requare slight buffs\nerfs here and there to be fine.

And as I said, while they are mobile, its again very vunerable to dives, and this mobility outside of the situation where enemy might be out of range (but even in 3v3\4v4 possitioning howis around the middle side of your part of the map will give you almost half of the map coverage anyway) and to be less vunerable to call-ins but in return they are almost twise as easy to kill and get to.

And as I said, while they are mobile, its again very vunerable to dives, and this mobility outside of the situation where enemy might be out of range (but even in 3v3\4v4 possitioning howis around the middle side of your part of the map will give you almost half of the map coverage anyway) and to be less vunerable to call-ins but in return they are almost twise as easy to kill and get to.

I wanna see a clip of you succesfully diving mobile artillery pieces vs top 10 arranged allied team on redball or whiteball. By your definition this should happen twice as often as LEFHs getting destroyed by call ins because you want allies to be able to field double the amount of mobile artillery So I would imagine you have a whole compilation of this happening somewhere.

Also pls attach link to your playercard on your profile so people know whether to take you seriously or to just ignore your opinion.

I wanna see a clip of you succesfully diving mobile artillery pieces vs top 10 arranged allied team on redball or whiteball.
Also pls attach link to your playercard on your profile so people know whether to take you seriously or to just ignore your opinion.

I'm glad you are topkek of 3v3 and 4v4 axis, but you can also try to play allies sometimes for a change, not only to fase top 10 arranged allied teams, but also to face top 10 axis arranged teams.
And on a side note, I've never ever played 4v4, so I dont know how shit works in it and to be honest, I dont want even try it. But no-one should be bothered about 4v4 in a first place.

By your definition this should happen twice as often as LEFHs getting destroyed by call ins because you want allies to be able to field double the amount of mobile artillery So I would imagine you have a whole compilation of this happening somewhere.

You should re-read what I said, and lower trigger level.

I'm against arty spam myself, but right now both prist\sexton arent sufficient enouth to be locked to 1 per player

This is the main reason. Even theoretically they wont do near enouth damage out of the box, if you compare them to static howis. But as I said, alright. Make them a bit better out of the box and lock them to 1 per-player, fine by me.

Nerf the LeFH to ML20 levels, remove CB and call it a day.

We don't need to incentivise further arty spam in team games.

I don't see the ML20 that much but the LeFH is in about 70-80% of the games I play these days.

I will be the fourth (4th) person to +1 this statement.

CB existing on LefH is already absurd since balance team has spoken time and time again of removing abilities that you click and forget. Its why pak howie was nerfed, scott was nerfed and other IDF was nerfed.

I also played three games yesterday alone that had a lefh shooting into my base and wiping vet 3 inf trying to get healed up with an ambo. That is just fucking ridiculous and should have been moved a year ago. I can't even use offmaps on an enemy base and that taking into account I had to move across the entire map to give it vision.

Nerf the LefH to ML20 levels, it needs to be done. at bare minimum it needs CB removed and have the ability to target base sector removed.

I strongly disagree with indirectly buffing SPGs in any way. It's already bad enough on some maps where you DARE to put a HQ but one inch outside the base sector lol. I'm sure I've posted about the state of LeFH vs SPGs somewhere already at least once or twice.

ML20 is a piece of trash against any Axis team with decent capabilities and commander picked yes. ML20 also doesn't have to face SPGs so there's that. It prob needs a slight buff either way.

That all said, I have noticed it is a bit harder for the removal of fixed artillery in 3v3+ due to the recent IL-2/Stuka bomb removals from ISU/Jaeger Armor. Though when my ears stop ringing from other call-ins & SPGs I'll get back to you regarding whether CB LeFH/ML20 has suddenly become meta again.

Standard disclaimer, CB is the problem from a value reason. The ML/20 has similar direct barrage effectiveness as the leFH once it gets its Vet 1 extra shell.

CB just provides massive damage, precision, and micro savings not found elsewhere.

All mobile howitzers do dramatically reduced damage over time vs fixed, but with high FoW accuracy, so they kill forward positions. They are VERY pop cap intensive for their value, both costing more than fixed howis, I believe priest is the same as a m36. And Sextons have incredibly wipe safe shells.

I strongly disagree with indirectly buffing SPGs in any way. It's already bad enough on some maps where you DARE to put a HQ but one inch outside the base sector lol. I'm sure I've posted about the state of LeFH vs SPGs somewhere already at least once or twice.

ML20 is a piece of trash against any Axis team with decent capabilities and commander picked yes. ML20 also doesn't have to face SPGs so there's that. It prob needs a slight buff either way.

That all said, I have noticed it is a bit harder for the removal of fixed artillery in 3v3+ due to the recent IL-2/Stuka bomb removals from ISU/Jaeger Armor. Though when my ears stop ringing from other call-ins & SPGs I'll get back to you regarding whether CB LeFH/ML20 has suddenly become meta again.

First off, Lefh is absolutely meta in 3v3 and up because of CB being the go to counter for mobile rocket arty which is already in and of itself, meta. So I don't think there is even an argument to be had on that topic.

Second off, you scared of putting an HQ OUTSIDE of your base sector?? Try your base sector getting shelled off cooldown for 20 minutes on port of hamburg or Hill 400. Nothing you can do. Good luck getting vision on a fixed howitzer when recon planes go down with a light breeze, everything is locked down with 7 MG42s and your calliope or any other artillery piece is getting sniped by a player who just clicked a button and started picking his nose.

The current design for tube based arty just makes them worse versions of Rocket Arty. 90% of the time only the first 1-2 shells ever matter except vs buildings. The only one that is good right now is the LeFH.

They either need smaller barrages on faster cooldowns, or far greater utility (sector overwatch capabilities, creeping barrages, etc)

First off, Lefh is absolutely meta in 3v3 and up because of CB being the go to counter for mobile rocket arty which is already in and of itself, meta. So I don't think there is even an argument to be had on that topic.

Second off, you scared of putting an HQ OUTSIDE of your base sector?? Try your base sector getting shelled off cooldown for 20 minutes on port of hamburg or Hill 400. Nothing you can do. Good luck getting vision on a fixed howitzer when recon planes go down with a light breeze, everything is locked down with 7 MG42s and your calliope or any other artillery piece is getting sniped by a player who just clicked a button and started picking his nose.

A few things: Hamburg is my favourite 4v4 map and I end up playing on Hill 400 often as well. So I know on Hamburg that LeFH/ML-20s are out of range of the enemy base sector when parked outside the HQ sector barring some exceptional scatter. Move LeFHs further forward and then SPGs can shoot at them with minimal fear and with how tight Hamburg is, it's easier to get sight on a gun too because the distances are closer. You won't be able to protect the guns from a push. 7 MG42s? Is that meant to be an argument? Esp vs USF with so many smokes and tools to deal with MGs?

And in no realistic world does LeFH counter Calliope (3 direct hits in a very short period of time? What, they parked half a dozen LEFHs in the map unscathed? Incredible odds.)

I'm just going to leave this picture here from the last patch to answer any current and future comments aimed to me on this topic. I'm tired of addressing the LeFH CB topic. The moment you go up against a decent team in 4v4, it'll be raining call-ins and SPGs.

Numbers are, in order: Weapon built/(Weapon)Losses/Inf dmg/Vehicle dmg/Efficiency

Went all out late-game building just LeFHs as an exercise to see if it would be enough. Not even remotely close. Suicide dives with Valentines for sight showed up as well. So when people tell me that CB is outrageous and incredible, I challenge them to even keep a vet I+ LeFH in 4v4 vs a good team.

Actually not really. If it was so, then we would have seen both Sexton\Prist every single game in teamgames, unlike LeFH\B4\ML20 (less so) which you can see every game pretty much. Sure it due to the fact that they are not in less meta commanders, but still. Royal arty was used primiry because of valentine and cheap call-in arty and inf company is more or less decent commander but because of LMGs\MTHT and field defences.


Mobile arty becomes good only when its vetted + on top of that it cant counter howis without vet, because it will be out of range most of the time and being in range will requare you to almost sit in the front line.

I've tryed to use Sexton\Prist and compare them to ML-20\LeFH\B4 and over-all its incomparably harder to use them effectively. Hell, even enemy inderect rocket arty can damage them quite significantly.

I'm against arty spam myself, but right now both prist\sexton arent sufficient enouth to be locked to 1 per player, while LeFH\ML-20\B4 are more then enouth just requare slight buffs\nerfs here and there to be fine.

And as I said, while they are mobile, its again very vunerable to dives, and this mobility outside of the situation where enemy might be out of range (but even in 3v3\4v4 possitioning howis around the middle side of your part of the map will give you almost half of the map coverage anyway) and to be less vunerable to call-ins but in return they are almost twise as easy to kill and get to.

it sounds like you simply dont understand how mobile arty works. its not MEANT to counter static arty. its meant to be MOBILE (the clue is right there in the name) they are mobile fire support, not set and forgets. like, if the enemy is countering your mobile howitzers with rocket arty... i dont even know... they should not be sitting in a place the enemy will even think of barraging.... you move them up to fire, then pull them back, and when the front moves so can they. its obvious why you discount the value of mobility if you are not moving them....

they are only as vulnerable as rocket arty (less so actually because of the extra health and range, again, it seems as if your issue with them stems from using them as they were static, granted if thats teh case, you can actually defend them in the exact same way! lay mines. but then you still have the added benifit of being able to retreat to base...

make em dive and punish them, they have tracks, use em.