Sandbags nerfed enough? Nope

Jump back to quoted post8 Mar 2021, 17:52 PMMr Carmine

I was adement to only have cons keep the sandbags, but seeing how easely volks loose to upgraded rifles and sections and soviets ime are not struggeling vs volks and sandbags only cons and volks should have them with current gimmics or longer build time ofcourse.

Jump back to quoted post8 Mar 2021, 20:31 PMEsxile

Disabling building while capping could result in a buff for the Kubel and a stronger nerf for tommies since they really need that cover to fight at full strength.

Jump back to quoted post8 Mar 2021, 21:28 PMPip

Eh, any cover will do for Sections. They beat equivalent-covered axis mainlines either way, they don't necessarily need /green/ cover.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 12:12 PMSpanky

Perhaps when giving the sandbags to Sturms, the build order would go with double Sturm opening. Have more utility with two of them on the field.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 12:31 PMPip

They're too expensive and cost too much population to really justify it, relative to their combat performance later on in the game.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 12:53 PMKatitof

They cost 7 pop and perform twice as good at both, repairing and fighting then any other engineer.
Ost often ends up with 3 pios in late game, soviets with 2-3, depending on doctrines allowing repairs, UKF really depends, because bolstered inf is very pop heavy and USF is USF.
2 spios is completely in line cost-wise and performance-wise compared to what other factions get in late game. If OKW didn't had mech automatons, we'd be seeing double spio on regular basis.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 13:07 PMPip

Sturms at vet 2 and with a sweeper repair at a rate of 13.75. Pioneers (And CE) at vet2 repair at 11.6, with pioneers having 14.5 with veteran Squad Leaders. Royal Engineers also have 13.125 repair rates at 6 pop each (Bolstered). This is nowhere near "Twice as good".

They are not an unit worth having multiple of in most games.

EDIT: Two Sturmpioneers cost one less population than three CEs, REs, Pioneers, and (unbolstered) RoyEs, and for that you get far less repairing, and much less versatility. You're even paying around the same cost in Manpower.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 13:07 PMPip

Sturms at vet 2 and with a sweeper repair at a rate of 13.75. Pioneers (And CE) at vet2 repair at 11.6, with pioneers having 14.5 with veteran Squad Leaders. Royal Engineers also have 13.125 repair rates at 6 pop each (Bolstered). This is nowhere near "Twice as good".

They are not an unit worth having multiple of in most games.

EDIT: Two Sturmpioneers cost one less population than three CEs, REs, Pioneers, and (unbolstered) RoyEs, and for that you get far less repairing, and much less versatility. You're even paying around the same cost in Manpower.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 12:53 PMKatitof

They cost 7 pop and perform twice as good at both, repairing and fighting then any other engineer.
Ost often ends up with 3 pios in late game, soviets with 2-3, depending on doctrines allowing repairs,

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 12:53 PMKatitof

UKF really depends, because bolstered inf is very pop heavy and USF is USF.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 15:22 PMSpanky

2x SP is not a deal breaker imo, they give great value for your army

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 14:53 PMEsxile

It is not like OKW have a non doctrinal abiltiy to repair vehicle.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 16:00 PMSander93

They still do not scale well against Allied vetted and upgraded infantry. There's a reason no one uses double Sturmpioneer openings at higher level games (except for some urban maps perhaps). They will bleed too much past min 5 and then you're stuck with two 300 manpower squads that can't do much anymore and you're missing a Volks squad or have terrible tech timing.

Moving sandbags to Sturmpioneers is a bad idea. You can't realistically get multiple of them without significant changes. You need their early game power to get an edge, you can't waste time building sandbags with them. They barely have any use for them themselves either. So your Volks are either going to be off significantly worse or you have to sacrifice the time of your most valuable early game unit. In either case OKW's early to mid game would get nerfed hard.

And that's ignoring the fact that they already have too many things to do.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 16:00 PMSander93

They still do not scale well against Allied vetted and upgraded infantry. There's a reason no one uses double Sturmpioneer openings at higher level games (except for some urban maps perhaps). They will bleed too much past min 5 and then you're stuck with two 300 manpower squads that can't do much anymore and you're missing a Volks squad or have terrible tech timing.

Moving sandbags to Sturmpioneers is a bad idea. You can't realistically get multiple of them without significant changes. You need their early game power to get an edge, you can't waste time building sandbags with them. They barely have any use for them themselves either. So your Volks are either going to be off significantly worse or you have to sacrifice the time of your most valuable early game unit. In either case OKW's early to mid game would get nerfed hard.

And that's ignoring the fact that they already have too many things to do.

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 17:21 PMpvtgooner

Isn't it a good thing that factions have to pick and choose which strength to accentuate and what weakness to shore up?

Jump back to quoted post9 Mar 2021, 17:41 PMGachiGasm

Its a good thing, when you have options both of which will give you significant strength and weakness as a trade off.
Lets say, if you get early nades for IS\Rifles. They will give you strength in terms of how you can get units out of cover and disadvantage will be that you delayed bolster\LVs.

In this situation, volks dont have any upper hand over early USF\UKF and sandbangs is more of a nessesity for volks, rather then a chose and even with sandbags its not garanteed that you will win the engagement.