Kubel Overly good?

Of all the early game vehicle this is probably the only lasting longer in any game thanks to it share veterancy. After the 2 firsts engamenent you don't really need anymore to put it on the front line unlike UC or M3. I regularly see kubel living 20 minutes uncontested because they're so useful on the backline and atgun/LV/mediums miss more than they hit them and they just drive super fast out of reach for the second shot.

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Early game use it as meat shield, once vet1 keep it a bit behind to assist dps and let it get his shared vet accumulate. Use or abuse of the detection ability anytime.

For a 210 manpower unit, that's too much cost effective.

Particular grief: too good vs vanilla Riflemen, 70 manpower difference and a bleed capability on riflemen that's over the top. I constantly see in 2vs2 many good OKW players building 2 Kubel vs USF because they're so effective vs them. You can lock riflemen behind cover for a really long time since they do jack shit dps on the kubel. Then even if you lose one kubel it doesn't matter since how much advantage you took from it, you just need to snowball now.

My proposal:

Balance Kubel vs riflemen should be adjusted. Kubel shouldn't be used so effectively as meatshield vs Riflemen. Even Pathfinders are 10 time better, That's actually my constant counter on map where dual kubels are too effective but honestly being force to pick a commander to counter two kubels .

Dectection ability should come with a greater downside. Maybe force a static mode once on detection mode with a couple of second to activate/disactivate so It can't just evade anything on demand.

Kubel is in line with other micro light vehicles.

Vehicle reckon abilities should be timed and not always on but that goes for all vehicles.

kübel is fine as is. it can dish out quite a bit of dps against lone squads but falters quickly when pressured with multiple units. a force multiplier in the early game but at the cost of another volks or sturm that offer much better scaling into the later stages of the game. i personally find them a nuisance to deal with as usf, but still easy enough to chase off until i can field a proper counter (e.g. a light vehicle).
as for their late-game utility, the detection ability is sure useful, but not exactly a game breaking maphack that needs to be nerfed. if anything i'd like to see more (ultra) lights having a bit more purpose after the early game that is not tied to their (by then mostly irrelevant) combat stats.

kübel is fine as is. it can dish out quite a bit of dps against lone squads but falters quickly when pressured with multiple units. a force multiplier in the early game but at the cost of another volks or sturm that offer much better scaling into the later stages of the game. i personally find them a nuisance to deal with as usf, but still easy enough to chase off until i can field a proper counter (e.g. a light vehicle).
as for their late-game utility, the detection ability is sure useful, but not exactly a game breaking maphack that needs to be nerfed. if anything i'd like to see more (ultra) lights having a bit more purpose after the early game that is not tied to their (by then mostly irrelevant) combat stats.

Once the kubel is vetted, good luck chasing it with your LV since it just need to sit on the backline and reverse once your volk's line is broke.
Now maybe you speak of 1vs1, but in 2vs2 Lvs have hard time to chase anything with the multiplication of soft counter available on the field.

One kubel is not a problem early game, two is a different matter that can bleed you really fast with little counterplay.

And their ability has nothing of "late game", or to consider 4-5 minutes mark as late game. Funny enough I clearly have less problem with Cons which only cost 240 manpower to counter a Kubel.

Kubel Op now... my god, really? And when it had an MG was it balanced?

Even Pathfinders are 10 time better, That's actually my constant counter on map where dual kubels are too effective but honestly being force to pick a commander to counter two kubels

That doesn't make any sense, Riflemen have roughly the same DPS against a Kubel as Pathfinders. Pathfinders may have a slight edge in firepower because of higher weapon damage. But Rifles have significantly more effective hitpoints (412 vs 320).

This isn't 2015 where 2 kubels can end USF in 10 mins. It's a 3 armor vehicle with 240 hp effective that can be forced off easily by even cons in cover.

Kubel is fine.

Yes, I've had vet V Kubel in the past a few times but it's hardly a scary vehicle even then. Granted it can be extremely annoying if used well but that's true for all ULVs.

This thread seems like a creation of one salt inducing match. In my eyes you get with the Kubel what you pay for, and thats it.

That doesn't make any sense, Riflemen have roughly the same DPS against a Kubel as Pathfinders. Pathfinders may have a slight edge in firepower because of higher weapon damage. But Rifles have significantly more effective hitpoints (412 vs 320).

Try it. Pathfinders do way better than vanilla riflemen, maybe something to do with the critical shot I didn't really analysed the why.

People tend to think I only speak of my own experience. I've witnessed the increase in use of Kubel in 2vs2 and by extend seing many 2 kubels start especifically vs USF players (not only vs me) with good success in denying map presence for the first minutes of the game, which make me wonder if a 210 manpower/no fuel unit should be so effective vs 280 manpower units.

Anyway I would welcome more argument about the kubel other than -AHAH kubel OP or trying to discuss my own skills. As I said I have no difficulties to stay in cover fighting Kubel until it retreats, the problem is the effectiveness of this strategy because riflemen have low damage output vs this specific unit.

If you opponent spams kubels you can use the WC51 or the RE mines

Try it. Pathfinders do way better than vanilla riflemen

I tried. They don't.

Actually soviet M3 has shared veterancy now. I was able to get it to vet 3 first time in 4 years!

I tried. They don't.

Out of cover? You shows youself that neither riflemen or pathfinder can win an engagement out of cover vs a Kubel so how can you use it as a test.
You're deluding the point here, it is not about who between riflemen or pathfinder does more damage before dying out of cover because obviously riflemen are 5 men squad and pathfinder 4 men but how fast are you able to force the backoff of a Kubel when in cover.

Ayway It's also interesting to analyse, this may also be a biais because PFs help a lot to repel the SP that try to flank or the vision bonus helping to position before engaging someone who doesn't see you first.

There are so many variables that one test Kubel vs PF or RM out of cover is a bit ridiculous to claim anything.

Kubel is great how it is. I thought suppress kubel was better and unique and fun instead of buildable MG34

Try it. Pathfinders do way better than vanilla riflemen, maybe something to do with the critical shot I didn't really analysed the why.

Scoped garands do have twice the dps of normal garands at long range, so that could be it. Not counting crits, since they don't apply to vehicles.
However, the best weapons against light vehicles are the ones with low accuracy (SMGs, mostly). Kubels, for instance, have a target size of 14, so every single round an infantryman fires will hit the vehicle.

Scoped garands do have twice the dps of normal garands at long range, so that could be it. Not counting crits, since they don't apply to vehicles.
However, the best weapons against light vehicles are the ones with low accuracy (SMGs, mostly). Kubels, for instance, have a target size of 14, so every single round an infantryman fires will hit the vehicle.

Assault engineer are great if you manage to close the distance but it's kinda hard sometime.

Since the first PF arrive at the same time the first RM it also helps a lot and PF are usually vetting faster than rifles.
Anyway there are many reasons that are not necessarily connected to a vacuum dps comparison.

I still believe kubel are doing too great at least vs USF and I can understand why I regularly see dual Kubel start vs USF on some maps.

Its worth noting that, as an armoured vehicle, any DPS statistics you might read aren't hugely relevant vs the Kubel. Many weapons either cannot miss, or only rarely miss vs vehicles, even ones with as relatively small a target size as the Kubel. The actual relevant DPS vs a kubel is just firerate + damage in most cases (Modified by armour, but most relevant small arms only have 1 penetration anyway)

This is why the change RE received a while back, to make their Carbines more reliable through reducing their damage and increasing their accuracy, was actually a nerf vs Kubel openings in particular.

EDIT: Roastinghost already mentioned this, sorry.