British counter barrage is broken

I was just fooling around a bit with the Advanced emplacement doctrine, I haven't played with it for a long time anyway. I tried to use its counter barrage ability, expecting it to work like the axis counter barrage, but it didn't.

For those who are not familiar with the brit counter barrage, considering that very few higher ranked player touch this doctrine: according to description while it is activated on the base arty or mortar emplacements it fires a counter barrage on enemy artillery within range. Active for 45 seconds, costs 30 muni, disables construction or regular barrage.

So I went to test it a bit, and here are my findings:
-The base artillery has a limited range for this ability, in 4v4 it may not even cover half of the map.
-The base arty counter barrage fires only two, rather inaccurate shells, unlikely to kill anything.
-The mortar counter barrage works only within normal range, not the extended barrage range.

So yeah, in conclusion this ability is pretty useless. First, there is no indication of what is the exact range of base artillery. Second, even if you manage to find that 45 second time period when the enemy uses artillery then almost certainly none will be in range for counter barrage, so it's just a waste of 30 muni. Third, even if by some miracle they are in range they will most likely miss their shots. Oh, and it also disables unit construction or regular mortar barrage for that duration.

I know, this is perhaps the most hated doctrine in the game, but broken abilities need to be fixed regardless.

I was just fooling around a bit with the Advanced emplacement doctrine, I haven't played with it for a long time anyway. I tried to use its counter barrage ability, expecting it to work like the axis counter barrage, but it didn't.

For those who are not familiar with the brit counter barrage, considering that very few higher ranked player touch this doctrine: according to description while it is activated on the base arty or mortar emplacements it fires a counter barrage on enemy artillery within range. Active for 45 seconds, costs 30 muni, disables construction or regular barrage.

So I went to test it a bit, and here are my findings:
-The base artillery has a limited range for this ability, in 4v4 it may not even cover half of the map.
-The base arty counter barrage fires only two, rather inaccurate shells, unlikely to kill anything.
-The mortar counter barrage works only within normal range, not the extended barrage range.

So yeah, in conclusion this ability is pretty useless. First, there is no indication of what is the exact range of base artillery. Second, even if you manage to find that 45 second time period when the enemy uses artillery then almost certainly none will be in range for counter barrage, so it's just a waste of 30 muni. Third, even if by some miracle they are in range they will most likely miss their shots. Oh, and it also disables unit construction or regular mortar barrage for that duration.

I know, this is perhaps the most hated doctrine in the game, but broken abilities need to be fixed regardless.

In my experience British base counter-battery fire is perfectly able to kill the units it targets. LEFH and LeIG i have tried to use within its range have been readily obliterated. Are you testing with both base buildings built? I was reasonably sure it fired more than two shells.

The fact that the ability has a limited range that you CAN'T EVEN SEE is extremely stupid, though. The ability appears to cover the entirety of Eindhoven, but I think that's about the extent of it. As much as I really dislike it (and that commander in general)that sort of inconsistency should be ironed out.

Despite being a timed muni ability, I honestly think the brit counter-battery ability is even more cancerous than the axis LEFH counter battery. At least the LEFH is an unit that can be actually killed, costs resources to produce, requires that it become vetted, and takes up (Kind of a lot, actually) population space. Neither ability is very good for the game, though, and I say this as someone who often makes use of the LEFH counter battery to help deal with garbage like the B-4 and Land Mattress.

Once upon a time UKF CB was full map range and a toggle. Its nerfed to 250 range smd a timed ability, which mostly breaks it. Cancer commander was knee capped for good reason.

...

With both base arty active the total number of shells is 4 per target. I tested with panzerwerfers, only about 1 out of 5 times they managed to hit one for me (they stood still).

Yes, I can totally see the hate this commander gets, even I hated it when I was playing against it in my early coh2 days, but tbh it's rather easy to counter for experienced players, especially since the advanced forward assembly sapper respawn time was fixed.
It needs a major rework, personally instead of making existing emplacements even stronger I would increase the diversity of emplacements with the addition an mg bunker and a 25 pounder arty emplacement (all units mod has one), none of these would have brace.

counter barrage should simply not be available in that commander...

At least it should increase range to infinite……

yeah, thanks to the axis crybabbies that commander is useless now.
And it wasn't even that good back in the day, I used to beat simcity all the time with no problems, it was just annoying to play vs that style, not hard.

Once upon a time UKF CB was full map range and a toggle. Its nerfed to 250 range smd a timed ability, which mostly breaks it. Cancer commander was knee capped for good reason.

Isn't it down to 160? On 4v4's, it barely gets to the nearest VP, so it only is useful if you're base-pinned and going to lose anyway.

The problem with counter battery is it has 0 counters unlike destroying an LefH.

Very dangerous ability

yeah, thanks to the axis crybabbies that commander is useless now.
And it wasn't even that good back in the day, I used to beat simcity all the time with no problems, it was just annoying to play vs that style, not hard.

People whined because it usually took about 45 minutes to win, and just felt like a grind. It wasn't a very good commander for a competitive match.

I use it sometimes now, but only because the off-map is the most efficient that UKF has. Also, building repair sometimes means I can substitute an IS for an engineer.

Given that the counter battery has some cost now, it would be useful in breaking up arty wars if it had some range. Also, given that the commander has no arty, it wouldn't be bad to give it a buff.

Advanced Emplacements regiment should totally have this in place of CB:

(credits To SneakEye)

It is a step up compared to CB, but at least it would cost resources and popcap to deploy and can be killed.

Advanced Emplacements regiment should totally have this in place of CB:
...

It is a step up compared to CB, but at least it would cost resources and popcap to deploy and can be killed.

Not really. The design of commander with superior emplacements and counter barrage that counter the natural counter of emplacements, indirect fire is simply flawed.

It has lead to making emplacement irrelevant.

These is simply a bad combination that should not exist.

Not really. The design of commander with superior emplacements and counter barrage that counter the natural counter of emplacements, indirect fire is simply flawed.

It has lead to making emplacement irrelevant.

These is simply a bad combination that should not exist.

But if you read a bit more above then you can see I commented that this doctrine should lose emplacement health/armor upgrade and be replaced with some other ability, like access to mg bunkers. This would also make balancing emplacements easier in general as there will no longer be one doctrine that makes them even stronger.
It's the same deal as with trying to balance IS when there is bolster, one has to consider both states, same with regular emplacements and upgraded emplacements.

But if you read a bit more above then you can see I commented that this doctrine should lose emplacement health/armor upgrade and be replaced with some other ability, like access to mg bunkers. This would also make balancing emplacements easier in general as there will no longer be one doctrine that makes them even stronger.
It's the same deal as with trying to balance IS when there is bolster, one has to consider both states, same with regular emplacements and upgraded emplacements.

Then we agree in that superior emplacements and counter barrage should not be combined in single commander...

Not really. The design of commander with superior emplacements and counter barrage that counter the natural counter of emplacements, indirect fire is simply flawed.

It has lead to making emplacement irrelevant.

These is simply a bad combination that should not exist.

I do think his suggestion is a step in the right direction because a howitzer is not a real counter to another howitzer. Its like fighting generalist infantry with generalist infantry. Indestructible base howitzers with counter barrage ability are far worse because they can't be countered themselves.

In addition this commander already has the perfect 100%-one-click-and-delete-howitzer ability in form off an uncounterable offmap + nondoc recon.

But I agree that some combinations shouldn't exists. In this case the whole emplacement commander shouldn't exist. I would take out anything that buffs emplacements (after that you can balance emplacements finally) leave the repair engineers af forward base for vehicle repairs only and add some further tank buffs in form of things like Designate Command Vehicle. Or give it some real onmap artillery as suggested here in form of howitzer emplacement/Sexton/Land Mattress (choose what you like).

But if you read a bit more above then you can see I commented that this doctrine should lose emplacement health/armor upgrade and be replaced with some other ability, like access to mg bunkers. This would also make balancing emplacements easier in general as there will no longer be one doctrine that makes them even stronger.
It's the same deal as with trying to balance IS when there is bolster, one has to consider both states, same with regular emplacements and upgraded emplacements.

The problem is still that immobile defences are inherently flawed, and relying on the heavily is a recipe for a loss. Advanced Cancer makes them more durable because absurd durability is an immobile units' only defence. I agree that the aformentioned increased durability should absolutely be removed, as should CB, though I think the commander sort of needs an entirely different identity.


(I also still think Emplacements/howitzers etc should be relocatable, but I already have a thread on that)

Cancer Commander is probably on the short list of commanders that will be targeted for the supposed next Commander Revamp patch. (Along with Special Weapons). My guess is they'll probably do something like give it the Concentrated Barrage from Arty Regiment and call it a day. It would be cool if they could implement the buildable 25 Pounder but I don't know how you'd balance that with the base 25 pounders (I don't know if being able to double barrage stuff would be OP or not)

Cancer Commander is probably on the short list of commanders that will be targeted for the supposed next Commander Revamp patch. (Along with Special Weapons). My guess is they'll probably do something like give it the Concentrated Barrage from Arty Regiment and call it a day. It would be cool if they could implement the buildable 17 Pounder but I don't know how you'd balance that with the base 17 pounders (I don't know if being able to double barrage stuff would be OP or not)

The 17 pounder is the large AT gun they can already build, whereas the 25 pounder is the Base Howitzer. I know which you meant, but other people might be confused.

Thank you UK naming conventions.

The 17 pounder is the large AT gun they can already build, whereas the 25 pounder is the Base Howitzer. I know which you meant, but other people might be confused.

Thank you UK naming conventions.

Fixed the post. I bet the shells weighed the same as 17 currency Pounds and not American weight pounds anyway

Cancer Commander is probably on the short list of commanders that will be targeted for the supposed next Commander Revamp patch. (Along with Special Weapons). My guess is they'll probably do something like give it the Concentrated Barrage from Arty Regiment and call it a day. It would be cool if they could implement the buildable 25 Pounder but I don't know how you'd balance that with the base 25 pounders (I don't know if being able to double barrage stuff would be OP or not)

The commander has Precision barrage already whixch is really strong. It makes no sense to give him a second ability of the same kind which is just a little bit weaker and cheaper. UKF needs onmap artillery the most, so remove emplacement buff ability and CB. Give him an onmap artillery piece and something like Designate Command Vehicle and it is okay.