Sturmtiger... why?

Was this once a good unit? Short range, slow fire, and it glitches like nuts on the terrain. I can fire it on a standing unit of infantry and it'll manage to catch a bump in the ground and do zero damage to any units.

Does anyone use this tactically? Is the idea you would drive it up to a fortified position and fire it? It takes so damn long that you'll lose the tank to a single AT just trying to do that.

Its great for BM purposes, and the occasional meme highlight video when it nukes a blob

Otherwise, the theory is that it should harm indirectly by forcing the enemy to always be on the move, which can sometimes work and most of the time doesnt

Sturm is sometimes OP, sometimes not. Its shell is definitely devastating. Once it vets up, it becomes unstoppable, being able to single-handedly stop any sort of push. I don't think I've ever seen it not do complete wipes in it's AOE. Probably the most toxic unit to play against.

I've had about 50% of the shots barely do any damage to a blob. I suspect the physics engine. If the shot hits bumpy ground, I think it blocks the damage. And I'm not talking about green cover or a crater.
I just tried it in MP and fired it at a mgun in the open. It killed 2 of 6, leaving 75% hp of the exposed unit.

You need to know on which maps you can use it and on which maps you can't use it (those with a lot of elevation and lots of obstacles), and you need to learn how the shell ballistics work. Basically you need to make sure:
- you use it from behind other units that spot for it so the enemy doesn't see it coming;
- move in a straight line to the target to minimize aim time: this way it will start aiming while slowing down; otherwise it has to stop, turn and then aim;
- and you need to aim a bit behind the target so you'll always hit because then when the shell goes short and still hits the target or it goes long and it will collide with the target;
- try to use sight blocking patches of trees to fire through to surprise enemies.

Once you master it, it can be a really good unit. Not competitive, but definitely very good. Especially with the vet 4 range increase when it can fire from FOW and now that the vet 1 ability is really good. The only thing that still really sucks is the abandon when it gets hit while manually reloading, but we're looking to remove that.

I've had about 50% of the shots barely do any damage to a blob. I suspect the physics engine. If the shot hits bumpy ground, I think it blocks the damage. And I'm not talking about green cover or a crater.
I just tried it in MP and fired it at a mgun in the open. It killed 2 of 6, leaving 75% hp of the exposed unit.

so you just tried it in multiplayer, huh?

The only thing that still really sucks is the abandon when it gets hit while manually reloading, but we're looking to remove that.

I'll be glad to see that gone, honestly. It's a weird eccentricity of the unit, and it isnt even particularly consistent with other units (Such as the SU-76, Kubel, Jeep, etc) that have much more exposed crewmen.

It also is quite open to abuse, through intentionally getting it decrewed to hand it to a teammate, or allow yourself a SturmTiger + another heavy vehicle.

Is there anything particularly preventing you making that change?

It also is quite open to abuse, through intentionally getting it decrewed to hand it to a teammate, or allow yourself a SturmTiger + another heavy vehicle.

Not even just abuse, but if you do lose it to a reload abandon it's usually somewhere behind your lines where you can still save it and then you can get two or let a teammate recrew it and call in a new one yourself. This happens to me more often than completely losing it to an abandon to be honest. Both are bad though. The manual reload and slow reload speed are already bad enough, the abandon mechanic is just overkill on usability. Especially compared to the AVRE.

Is there anything particularly preventing you making that change?

I don't think there would be, but at this point any changes for the next patch are still in concept phase at best obviously.

Especially compared to the AVRE.

There shoudnt be any comparancent really. AVRE is superior in pretty much every single way. I've made a thread before when I compared them, and ST has faster max speed (but AVRE reaches max speed faster by like x2) and bigger AOE (which is still usually means nothing, because both AVRE and ST requare almost direct hits in order to wipe\kill stuff).

In every single other regard AVRE is hands down better, be it armor, ROF, reload and mechanics and turret.

Point is being that with AVRE as it is in the game, ST has no redeeming qualities over AVRE or payoffs for its disadvantages over AVRE.

Especially compared to the AVRE.

If the Sturmtiger does need some sort of balancing done relative to the AVRE, abandons when shot while reloading certainly isnt a good option, so I'll be glad to see this change. The Sturmtiger is a meme unit anyway though, I can't recall the last time I've built one, despite using Elite Armour in more than half of my OKW games.

Incidentally, I don't suppose there's any chance of the AVRE getting a more noticeable animation when gearing up to fire, is there? The Sturmtiger raises it's barrel, but the AVRE simply turns its turret and fires... and as far as I know there isnt even a tell at all that it's trying to fire if your hull is already facing where you want to fire. I guess it's not really important, but it's a lot harder to predict when the AVRE is going to fire... and as far as I know it can still turn its turret even when it doesn't have a shell ready to go.

I don't think there would be, but at this point any changes for the next patch are still in concept phase at best obviously.

I was excited at the thought that you were implying there would definitely be a new patch... but then I realised you must be talking about the Commander Patch, that has already been announced. Any interesting tidbits from that upcoming Patch you might be willing to share, or is it all either too far away/confidential to tell us about at this stage?

There shoudnt be any comparancent really. AVRE is superior in pretty much every single way. I've made a thread before when I compared them, and ST has faster max speed (but AVRE reaches max speed faster by like x2) and bigger AOE (which is still usually means nothing, because both AVRE and ST requare almost direct hits in order to wipe\kill stuff).

In every single other regard AVRE is hands down better, be it armor, ROF, reload and mechanics and turret.

Point is being that with AVRE as it is in the game, ST has no redeeming qualities over AVRE or payoffs for its disadvantages over AVRE.

The Sturmtiger has significantly better range, which is notable, and a really strong quality. (And the grenade defence ability). The AVRE's free engine repair at vet and Incendiary shells are really very good though.

Why not give it back world piercing to fix it? It was removed back when the AOE profile and range were OP.

In every single other regard AVRE is hands down better, be it armor, ROF, reload and mechanics and turret.

Point is being that with AVRE as it is in the game, ST has no redeeming qualities over AVRE or payoffs for its disadvantages over AVRE.

That's where you're wrong. Sturmtiger gets a very useful and deadly vet 1 ability that it can use besides its main armament / during down time, it gets 1280 hitpoints at vet 2 on top of similar/slightly worse armor (242 vs 290), it gets significantly more range at vet 4 and it is deadlier against tanks when you can manage to score direct hits (580 vs 440 damage). It also reaches most of its veteran bonuses faster at 1400/2800/5600/7400/8900 veterancy requirements compared to the AVRE's 2020/4040/8080.

It is more clumsy to use, that is for sure. And overal I would rate the AVRE slightly better because it is more versatile / easier to use. But the Sturmtiger definitely has its perks once you know when and how to use it and it can be really good when used properly.

Why not give it back world piercing to fix it? It was removed back when the AOE profile and range were OP.

World Piercing on such an ability would help to reduce frustration, certainly, but it would mean you could easily fire through shot and sightblockers, which I think might be pretty frustrating for the opposing player.

A harsher arc, so that it comes down more vertically on its intended landing point (And so is more likely to reach it) is probably something that would take less work to balance.

World Piercing on such an ability would help to reduce frustration, certainly, but it would mean you could easily fire through shot and sightblockers, which I think might be pretty frustrating for the opposing player.

A harsher arc, so that it comes down more vertically on its intended landing point (And so is more likely to reach it) is probably something that would take less work to balance.

Well, it had piercing from day 1, and it was removed back when it had 5 more range at vet 0 and a much more unforgiving AOE profile. Both of the aspects have since been nerfed/reworked so I don't see why piercing shouldn't be its compensation for not having a turret and having to manualy reload between each shot.

Balance team tried to give it an arc at one point but ran into issues and gave up if memory serves.

Sturm is sometimes OP, sometimes not. It's shell is definitely devastating. Once it vets up, it becomes unstoppable, being able to single-handedly stop any sort of push. I don't think I've ever seen it not do complete wipes in it's AOE. Probably the most toxic unit to play against.

+ 1000000

Sturm is sometimes OP, sometimes not. It's shell is definitely devastating. Once it vets up, it becomes unstoppable, being able to single-handedly stop any sort of push. I don't think I've ever seen it not do complete wipes in it's AOE. Probably the most toxic unit to play against.

Same here.
A friend of mine loves the unit and it is really tough to play against in 2v2. And frustrating.
Especially in longer games when,
it is joined by a King Tiger with armor piercing rounds.

With AP rounds you have an OP tank killer and with the Sturm a glorious wiping machine.

IMO King Tiger, Sturm AND AP rounds do go together too well. In team games that feels pretty OP.

The collision of the projectile with the terrain however - that is a silly mechanic that makes the unit frustrating to play.

My vote goes for: remove AP rounds from the commander and remove this collision mechanic

and another idea, in case you touch the unit:
You could make the projectile a liiiiitle bit slower.

It is so frustrating to get those sure wipes on team weapons. If the chance for escape is 10% higher - great.

If the abandon while reloading is being removed then what's the point of the manual reload going to be, just to keep making it shittier than the AVRE?

Also what's the vet 5 do exactly? The description still says gives reload while moving but it can already do that?

If you ask me just give it longer range and turn it into a proper SPG that needs to lockdown first in order to fire.

I would suggest to reduce the squad wide potential and make the unit more about utility than than wipes.

The utility could include longer range high damage vs buildings.

Critical vs vehicles and infantries.

I would also rather see it swapped with JT from breakthrough commander as it feel more of breakthrough unit than JT.