T34 Ram Ability at 50% health is OP, LOL!

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 11:52 AMHannibal

To be fair though it is impossible to avoid those "long, linear" maps in any mode but 1v1. 2v2 has/had probably the worst amount of this type, but there are plenty of maps in other modes as well where Ele and JP fare exceptionally well. These are not even the linear ones only.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 11:43 AMHannibal

Panther is strong in team games. And OKW has the JP4 that is tailored towards countering TDs.

But some of the heavy tanks are still a mess right know, in 3v3+ it's Elefant, JT and ISU all day every day.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 11:43 AMHannibal

Panther is strong in team games. And OKW has the JP4 that is tailored towards countering TDs.

But some of the heavy tanks are still a mess right know, in 3v3+ it's Elefant, JT and ISU all day every day.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:02 PMKatitof

True, but OKW does not have this problem due to JP4 and for ost, sending recon, barraging ATGs with indirect and just moving in with panthers and inf is perfectly viable alternative that works, at least in 2s.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:02 PMKatitof

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Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:08 PMVipper

As for JP4 it can zoned allied TDs but taking them is another story.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 11:52 AMHannibal

but there are plenty of maps in other modes as well where Ele and JP fare exceptionally well

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:09 PMWiderstreit

hm... nerf ISU, than Elefant and Jagdtiger arn't needed anymore and can be nerfed too, because there is no need form them. For me, my team doesn't use these units anymore. Jagdpanzer4 and PaK40 is all I need.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:08 PMVipper

It was direct response to a quote,an analogy. The situation of Soviet vs Elefant/JT is similar to Axis vs allied TDs.

As for JP4 it can zoned allied TDs but taking them is another story.

As long as Allied TDs are so cost efficient Elefant and JT will also need to be strong.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:20 PMSander93

Jaeger Armor is the biggest issue because of how much it brings to the table, and it will get a nerf in the upcoming patch (Stuka Dive Bomb will be switched out for Stuka AT Strafe) along with the ISU commander nerfs. If it's up to me, it would also lose its self spotting with the spotting scope next patch so you actually need to accompany it with a scout unit.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:20 PMSander93

Jaeger Armor is the biggest issue because of how much it brings to the table, and it will get a nerf in the upcoming patch (Stuka Dive Bomb will be switched out for Stuka AT Strafe) along with the ISU commander nerfs. If it's up to me, it would also lose its self spotting with the spotting scope next patch so you actually need to accompany it with a scout unit.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:25 PMHannibal

Actually I think some of this could potentially be done already this patch.
ISU gets its HE shell nerfed to range 60 which was it's main strength. I think JT and Ele could get some minor nerfs (probably armor) as well. But let's see. They might still be part of the next patch that works on commanders and commander units.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:15 PMHannibal

I am not agreeing with Vipper's general point, but the map design in large modes absolutely dictates you to pick 1 or 2 commanders, otherwise you have lost. It is good that you have to adjust your playstyle to the maps, but in many cases it is a bit too much.
Ostheer mostly relies on Panthers though in the late game since PaKs regularly get eaten by arty to (best case) reset the veterancy or worst case destroy the whole thing.

Your personal quarrels with Vipper fit better into a PM.

In what I agree though is that an Ele/JT is by far the most reliable way to shut down Allied TDs, PaKs are always vulnerable and JP4s only awayable to OKW plus they will need constant repairs, whereas you can safely take pot shots with an Elefant and win on the micro game and repair less than others. That's why it is overly popular.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:20 PMSander93

It comfortably beats the Jackson and the Firefly due to its vastly superior (effective) DPM and its accuracy advantage, and versing the SU-85 is an even fight until it gets its camo and 800 hp at vet 2, after which it also beats that one. TLDR the Jagdpanzer is an excellent counter to Allied TDs.
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Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:25 PMHannibal

Axis do have options, it's just that Ele and JT are the safest and most efficient ones.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:25 PMHannibal

A JP4 can't get zoned by Allied TDs because they have the same range. And the only unit that can get away quickly is the Jackson. The moment of surprise will give you enough of a headstart already that the SU85 takes a long time to break even and get away.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 13:13 PMVipper

My point is that it can beat them in slug fight but chasing them to killing them in game is another story

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 13:21 PMSander93

That hardly matters. You don't win the game only by killing the enemy units, you win it by effectively neutralising them so they can't bother your own units. Which the JP4 is excellent for.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 13:13 PMVipper

The comment was the other way round. JP can keep allied TDs at distance but it has hard time actually killing them due to difference in mobility.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 11:22 AMthedarkarmadillo

While you are not wrong, the issue is that soviet don't really have any other answer to elefants and JTs. Heavy tanks can be gunned down by SU85s but the case mates are a lil tougher to go nose to nose. Without some reliable tool to flank they are helpless against them

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 12:20 PMSander93

Jaeger Armor is the biggest issue because of how much it brings to the table, and it will get a nerf in the upcoming patch (Stuka Dive Bomb will be switched out for Stuka AT Strafe) along with the ISU commanders nerfs.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 14:12 PMPip

True, but similarly to the overperformance of the T-70; Soviet need to have changed made to them to allow them to deal with these things without resorting to gimmicky crutches.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 13:28 PMVipper

It does matter.

In addition the JP4 cost about the same (or even more) then most allied TDs, has about the same XP value (or even more), has about the same Pop (or even more) when most counters are cheaper.

In sort it a huge investment that might or might not work while still one need to win the infatry fight.

If it was a truly "excellent" choice I would expect to be used more.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 13:28 PMVipper

It does matter.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 13:28 PMVipper

In addition the JP4 cost about the same (or even more) then most allied TDs, has about the same XP value (or even more), has about the same Pop (or even more) when most counters are cheaper.