Smartie's commander reworks: OKW

I forget to mention that sturm tiger need a buff, it is too slow to move, too slow to shot and its damage was nerfed alot which make it in a really bad spot.

I feel like Grand Offensive now from its original vision that was intended has changed under the balance team for balance concerns which is understandable. But there are two abilities that currently don't fit the the theme of an Offensive based commander is Infra red STG's for obersoldatan and panzer commander upgrade.

The new suggestion for Grand Offensive loadout would just remove two abilities

The two new abilities that I would like to see be added into the doctrine which could spice things up a bit giving that Offensive flavour is Infiltration tactics and Valiant Assault.

Infiltration tactics at first dosn't sound an Offensive aggressive like ability. Its more to do with the grenade assault running in after chucking a large amount of grenades. Valiant Assault would suit well into the Grand Offensive theme.

Smoke Bombing Run (munition ability) 'small cost for usage'
Fusiliers (manpower ability)
Infiltration Tactics (munition ability) 'small cost for usage'
Valiant Assault (munition ability) 'large cost'
Tiger 1 (manpower/Fuel call-in)

Having 3 munition abilities may seem munitions heavy doctrine but two of the three abilities that are munitions are quite cheap to use and are only used when needed to.

Overall to me personally this makes Grand Offensive more exciting to use as the current doctrine lacks that certain offensive feeling as units didn't get much out of the doctrine besides tanks and a cheep recon ability which is very useful for information also for concealment of units with the instant deployable smoke.

Totally disagree, I want my Falls to came from the sky lol, and they are really fine like they are.

You have every right to. On the other hand Fallj where design as an infiltration unit and where an infiltration unit for years. OKW used to have 2 infiltration unit and now they have none for no apparent reason.

I totally disagree again, don't balance Ostheer and OKW by making them as much similar to each other, I disagree with the idea of adding OKW units to Ostheer and vice versa, this factions should be diverse from each others and they already have many shared units between them.

The unit would simply use the same model of entities and would be completely different. One would be an infiltration unit the other normal paras.

I feel like Grand Offensive now from its original vision that was intended has changed under the balance team for balance concerns which is understandable. But there are two abilities that currently don't fit the the theme of an Offensive based commander is Infra red STG's for obersoldatan and panzer commander upgrade.

The new suggestion for Grand Offensive loadout would just remove two abilities

The two new abilities that I would like to see be added into the doctrine which could spice things up a bit giving that Offensive flavour is Infiltration tactics and Valiant Assault.

Smoke Bombing Run (munition ability) 'small cost for usage'
Fusiliers (manpower ability)
Infiltration Tactics (munition ability) 'small cost for usage'
Valiant Assault (munition ability) 'large cost'
Tiger 1 (manpower/Fuel call-in)

I like your suggestion to replace the Tank Commander with Valiant Assault a lot.
Here are my reasons:
- Tank Commander does not make much sense in this commander anymore when the TigerI can't be upgraded with it.
- Valiant Assault fits thematically MUCH BETTER to Grand Offensive than to Luftwaffe.
- Falls in combination with VA are problematic. We could solve this issue if we move VA to Grand Offensive AND free up a slot in Luftwaffe which could be used for a "Luftwaffe Supply drop"

Reworked Luftwaffe commander after moving VA and replacing Heavy Fortification:
- Ostwind
- Supply drop (ability from Osttruppen commander, Pak40+mg34 but med kits instead of fuel/ mun)
- Stuka Smoke Recon
- Falls
- Airborne Assault

This would be a much better commander than the live version and would erase the cheese of Falls+VA.

Not so sure about "Infiltration tactics". The ability fits well imo but we also would have it in 3 doctrines then. But I would still do it

You have every right to. On the other hand Fallj where design as an infiltration unit and where an infiltration unit for years.

Why not replace the Artillery Flares with Stormtroopers? It would give OKW an infiltration unit that fits very good to the theme.

.
...
Why not replace the Artillery Flares with Stormtroopers? It would give OKW an infiltration unit that fits very good to the theme.

ST are simply badly designed. 4 men CQC unit do not work well since the DPS drop fall losing model is simply too high.

You have every right to. On the other hand Fallj where design as an infiltration unit and where an infiltration unit for years. OKW used to have 2 infiltration unit and now they have none for no apparent reason.


The unit would simply use the same model of entities and would be completely different. One would be an infiltration unit the other normal paras.

I agree with u that infiltration problem should be solved but I don't think this is the right thing to fix it, Falls are actually paratroopers and are fit well with OKW and they are one of their unique and iconic units , that shouldn't be just removed and given to other faction, maybe to fix the problem we could re add the second infiltration unit that has been removed, but what it was and why it removed?

I agree with u that infiltration problem should be solved but I don't think this is the right thing to fix it, Falls are actually paratroopers and are fit well with OKW and they are one of their unique and iconic units , that shouldn't be just removed and given to other faction, maybe to fix the problem we could re add the second infiltration unit that has been removed, but what it was and why it removed?

Historically after the assault in Crete Fallj did little airdrops and fought mostly like infatry.

JLI was the other infiltration unit but the instant spawn at CP1 was simply too oppressive.

Historically after the assault in Crete Fallj did little airdrops and fought mostly like infatry.

JLI was the other infiltration unit but the instant spawn at CP1 was simply too oppressive.

Thanks for the info, but I still think they should stay as they are, and maybe we could add other infiltration variant of JLI in this commander to replac Artillery Flares, but it will require CP2 instead of CP1.
similar to what Smartie suggest, but without taking units from Ostheer.

Thanks for the info, but I still think they should stay as they are, and maybe we could add other infiltration variant of JLI in this commander to replac Artillery Flares, but it will require CP2 instead of CP1.
similar to what Smartie suggest, but without taking units from Ostheer.

Glad that I could help

The two new abilities that I would like to see be added into the doctrine which could spice things up a bit giving that Offensive flavour is Infiltration tactics and Valiant Assault

Radio intercept might have been nice option too.. it would still fit the offensive push theme.

ST are simply badly designed. 4 men CQC unit do not work well since the DPS drop fall losing model is simply too high.

"I can't blob them and they require micro to be effective therefore they are bad."

OKW commanders do not need any major changes imo. They have one of the most versatile (viable) commander rosters (at least for teamgames) of all factions. My initial thoughts would be:

Luftwaffe
- Remove heavy fortifications
- Replace by Ostwind

Defensive
- Merge heavy fortifications and Field defenses
- Add For The Fatherland (slightly tweak bonuses? Maybe replace speed with RD or accuracy bonus)

Special Operations
- Tweak Radio Silence
- Move Artillery Flares to Command Panther (as ability)
- Add Sturm Offizier

Elite Armor
- Buff 221 a bit (cost from 220/15 to ~180/10)
- Remove abandon from Sturmtiger

Feuersturm
- Opel Blitz durability to ambu level
- Assault Package: flamethrower mutual with sweepers

Breakthrough
- JT population from 22 to 21
- Panzerfusiliers very small buff to Kar 98K, compensate with very small nerf to G43s (so 5 men Pfussie are slightly stronger, G43 Pfussies remain the same)

Scavenge
- 105mm Howitzer Barrage requirements lowered from 5 extra shells per 100 abundant munitions, starting from 300, to 2 extra shells per 50 abundant munitions starting from the base cost of 180; so 2 more at 230, 2 more at 280, 2 more at 330, etc. Cap decreased from 500 to 380 munitions (so the maximum of extra shells is +8)

Grand Offensive
- Minor Tiger buff

Overwatch
- No changes

OKW commanders do not need any major changes imo. They have one of the most versatile (viable) commander rosters (at least for teamgames) of all factions. My initial thoughts would be:

Luftwaffe
- Remove heavy fortifications
- Replace by Ostwind

Defensive
- Merge heavy fortifications and Field defenses
- Add For The Fatherland (slightly tweak bonuses? Maybe replace speed with RD or accuracy bonus)

Special Operations
- Tweak Radio Silence
- Move Artillery Flares to Command Panther (as ability)
- Add Sturm Offizier

Elite Armor
- Buff 221 a bit (cost from 220/15 to ~180/10)
- Remove abandon from Sturmtiger

Feuersturm
- Opel Blitz durability to ambu level
- Assault Package: flamethrower mutual with sweepers

Breakthrough
- JT population from 22 to 21
- Panzerfusiliers very small buff to Kar 98K, compensate with very small nerf to G43s (so 5 men Pfussie are slightly stronger, G43 Pfussies remain the same)

Scavenge
- 105mm Howitzer Barrage requirements lowered from 5 extra shells per 100 abundant munitions, starting from 300, to 2 extra shells per 50 abundant munitions starting from the base cost of 180; so 2 more at 230, 2 more at 280, 2 more at 330, etc. Cap decreased from 500 to 380 munitions (so the maximum of extra shells is +8)

Grand Offensive
- Minor Tiger buff

Overwatch
- No changes

It looks very solid and good changes, I just wish that we could have both Ostwind and AA flak emplacement merged in one slot in Luftwaffe, because it is not an OP idea and the flak emplacement fit this commander too lol.

I can't blob them and they require micro to be effective therefore they are bad.

Since you seem to be honest about and seem to need tips on how to use units I suggest you visit the ask the strategist section of the forum

OKW commanders do not need any major changes imo. They have one of the most versatile (viable) commander rosters (at least for teamgames) of all factions. [...]

Hi Sander,

I agree with most of your ideas and incorporated some of them in my own proposals. If Luftwaffe gets the Ostwind and Fortress gets an additional ability then a lot would already be won. As I wrote in my op OKW, UK and USF commanders need fine tuning no major reworks.
That being said I still have some questions:

1. Why should Firestorm have the "incendiary barrage" that only affects 1 unit when US "Urban Assault Kit" benefits 2 units (Riflemen and RE)?
US players have usually 2-3 rifles and with this commander 2 RE. That means that the ability is useful for 5 units, incendiary barrage only benefits max. 2 leigs. It's a question of consistency to balance this discrepancy out imo.

2. Filling the free slot in "Fortress" with "DotF" would make sense but would also mean that Fortress and Overwatch would share 2 abilities.
Would it not be worth considering to move "DotF" to Fortress and replace the ability in Overwatch?

3. Do you think the impact of the following abilities justify their cost?
UK: concentrated Fire Barrage / current price: 240 munition
USF: P-47 rocket run / current price: 240 munition
USF: 240mm HOwitzer barrage / current price: 250 munition
OKW: Zeroing Arty / current price: 300 munition


Show Spoiler

Thanks in advance for answering the questions!

I just wish that we could have both Ostwind and AA flak emplacement merged in one slot in Luftwaffe, because it is not an OP idea and the flak emplacement fit this commander too lol.

Agreed, but there's no commander slots left after replacing it with the Ostwind. Which would be a lot more attractive than the heavy emplacements. So I would consider it a better trade overall.

1. Why should Firestorm have the "incendiary barrage" that only affects 1 unit when US "Urban Assault Kit" benefits 2 units (Riflemen and RE)?

I don't disagree, but Feuersturm just got a big buff with the Hetzer timing in the upcoming patch, so in combination with my proposed tweaks to the SP flamethrower I wouldn't touch too many things in one go and leave incendiary rounds for what it is. If it could still use something later, I'd add some kind of incendiary rounds to the Luchs or something.

How are you going to give Volks more than five MP40s? They only have five men in a squad!

The MP40 upgrade in Feuersturm already gives ever member of the squad MP40s, and turns it into a "proper" CQC squad. It's a really nice upgrade, in a really nice commander. As Smartie has suggested, giving it some sort of AT solution would be nice... though I don't think giving Sturms a HEAT grenade would be meaningful. I'm not sure what else to give the commander, however.

Sorry I worded that really bad. I meant like improve the MP40s the Volks get so they are a more effective close range squad. Currently it can be hard to justify getting the MP40 upgrade rather just getting the regular STG44 upgrade since that keeps them much more effective at further ranges.

Maybe another idea is to let them keep their Flame nade? I always found it weird the fire based doctrine replaced your Flame nades with regular ones.

I meant like improve the MP40s the Volks get so they are a more effective close range squad. Currently it can be hard to justify getting the MP40 upgrade rather just getting the regular STG44 upgrade since that keeps them much more effective at further ranges.

The received accuracy bonus and smoke grenade make them good enough as CQC imo. I do think the HE grenade is honestly worse though, I would rather they had the flame grenade

Agreed, but there's no commander slots left after replacing it with the Ostwind. Which would be a lot more attractive than the heavy emplacements. So I would consider it a better trade overall.

I thought that both Ostwind and AA flak emplacement could be merged in one ability/slot like Heavy Air defences for example, but if this is impossible then yes Ostwind is a better trade.

I thought that both Ostwind and AA flak emplacement could be merged in one ability/slot like Heavy Air defences for example, but if this is impossible then yes Ostwind is a better trade.

There's no reason they couldn't be, I don't think. I don't think there's anything limiting how much one commander "slot" can give you.