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Smartie's commander reworks: USF

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Smartie
15 Jan 2021, 09:05 AM
#1
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

HI guys,
in anticipation of a new patch focusing on commander improvements (https://www.coh2.org/file/19295/pogchamp.png) I worked on some proposals for Soviets, OKW and USF.

Here are my general thoughts about such a patch:
• There are only 2 factions imo that would need bigger commander reworks like those in the past: Wehrmacht and Soviets. Both have multiple underperforming commanders with poor design. In contrast to those factions UK, USF and OKW commanders are mostly fine. It’s more about fine-tuning them instead of reworking – result of the good changes in the past!
That’s why I would prefer a slightly different approach this time in case the scope of the patch would allow bigger reworks:

That being said here are my ideas to improve the US commander pool:

1. General thoughts about US commanders:
The US had the mightiest air force in the war but sadly CoH2 don’t reflect that. Even OKW, a faction that represents a late german army which had historically almost no air support, has 2 strong off map airstrikes – USF only one. This has to change!

2. Rework ideas:

Tactical Support


US Rifle Company


Armor Company


Heavy Cavalry:


It comes without saying that my ideas are not exhaustive. Many roads lead to Rome.
Please provide constructive feedback and make your own proposals here. We all have the same goal:
Make the Coh2 commander pool as good as possible.


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T.R. Stormjäger
15 Jan 2021, 09:19 AM
#2
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Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Wait, whose idea was it to give USF a sniper unit?
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Smartie
15 Jan 2021, 09:37 AM
#3
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2021, 09:19 AMT.R. Stormjäger
Wait, whose idea was it to give USF a sniper unit?

Dude, it's probanly the last commander patch. And maybe you have noticed that there are several weeks of testing before a patch goes live. If the sniper would be too strong- simply remove it. Problem solved!
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Katitof
15 Jan 2021, 09:39 AM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

USF and OKW still should NOT have access to snipers + there is no model, therefore its impossible anyway.

Its way too much work for something that's more likely to be gamebreaking then not.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Smartie
15 Jan 2021, 09:42 AM
#5
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2021, 09:39 AMKatitof
USF and OKW still should NOT have access to snipers + there is no model, therefore its impossible anyway.

Its way too much work for something that's more likely to be gamebreaking then not.


That's a fair conclusion. It's a long shot for sure. But I don't think we should limit our options before we have tested it... but I can see your point.
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Vipper
15 Jan 2021, 10:37 AM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Tactical support

Loiter planes with calliope is a terrible idea because they can stop any dives attempt to kill calliope

Heavy cavalry
Ranger and Pershing should simply not be in the same commander.
:)
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Smartie
15 Jan 2021, 11:06 AM
#10
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2021, 10:37 AMVipper
Tactical support

Loiter planes with calliope is a terrible idea because they can stop any dives attempt to kill calliope


If players save munitions for the air attack they cant spot for the Calliope with the recon run. This should be rewarded.
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Vipper
15 Jan 2021, 11:20 AM
#11
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2021, 11:06 AMSmartie


If players save munitions for the air attack they cant spot for the Calliope with the recon run. This should be rewarded.

I am not sure how you are suggesting that "P-47 Support run" should but the problem is that Calliope are difficult to counter and adding planes that can stop dive makes it even harder and that is simply bad design.
:)
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Smartie
15 Jan 2021, 11:29 AM
#12
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2021, 11:20 AMVipper

I am not sure how you are suggesting that "P-47 Support run" should but the problem is that Calliope are difficult to counter and adding planes that can stop dive makes it even harder and that is simply bad design.


I get your point, maybe the Support Run should be pure AI then. This would make the ability also more distinctive to the AT p-47 attack. Thx for feedback!
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Vipper
15 Jan 2021, 11:46 AM
#13
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Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2021, 11:29 AMSmartie


I get your point, maybe the Support Run should be pure AI then. This would make the ability also more distinctive to the AT p-47 attack. Thx for feedback!

Glad that I could help
:)
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Hannibal
15 Jan 2021, 14:09 PM
#14
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Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2

Ability rework idea:

Defensive structures -> currently allow Rifles to builds mines and sandbags

idea:
- echolons gain these abilities too
- MAYBE: nerf build time on Rifles to compensate

Echolon troops are fairly useless as USF. Apart from sweeping they don't have much to do, especially since vet1 vehicle crews can fix engine damages by themselves. I personally rarely replace them if I lose them in the early game. Since they don't seem to get a redesign, they might at least get some more doctrinal use.
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Vipper
15 Jan 2021, 14:12 PM
#15
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2021, 14:09 PMHannibal
Ability rework idea:

Defensive structures -> currently allow Rifles to builds mines and sandbags

idea:
- echolons gain these abilities too
- MAYBE: nerf build time on Rifles to compensate

Echolon troops are fairly useless as USF. Apart from sweeping they don't have much to do, especially since vet1 vehicle crews can fix engine damages by themselves. I personally rarely replace them if I lose them in the early game. Since they don't seem to get a redesign, they might at least get some more doctrinal use.

I have made the same suggestion.
:)
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Pip
15 Jan 2021, 15:29 PM
#16
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

I'd personally argue that either OKW and USF should just get a sniper as standard, like every other faction, or all other factions should (Ideally) have their snipers replaced with Light Infantry, the sorts that OKW and USF get from doctrines.

Models that could approximate snipers exist. (Ranger, Pathfinder, Paratrooper, The Ostheer sniper, etc) I'm sure there are unused infantry models in the files that wouldn't be confusing with other units, as well.

I don't like that snipers are so easily countered with other snipers, but WITHOUT a sniper, and if your opponent is really on the ball with his micro, sniperless factions have a very tough time dealing with an opposing sharfshutze.

Light Infantry fit the general gameplay loop of CoH2 much better than dedicated "snipers" do, in any case.
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SupremeStefan
15 Jan 2021, 15:43 PM
#17
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

E8 need just one thing:
50range like old comet to be something like soft panther
Usf need more AT options
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=429076979 <- check my map
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gunther09
15 Jan 2021, 15:56 PM
#18
avatar of gunther09
Donator 22

Posts: 538

Nice work, good to kick-off this discussion
A goal could be: we do not need Commander Terminator in Master League anymore, as all commanders are useful.
Greetings from Nürnberg - always happy to increase our local COH pool for local events - more glory: Rankade ladder
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Kurobane
15 Jan 2021, 16:32 PM
#19
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2021, 09:39 AMKatitof
USF and OKW still should NOT have access to snipers + there is no model, therefore its impossible anyway.

Its way too much work for something that's more likely to be gamebreaking then not.



It wouldn't be to difficult to use existing assets to get it done. It wouldn't be that gamebreaking if it was done right however knowing the balance team it would be 0 CP, cost like 200 manpower and have double the range of a regular sniper for one patch (Remember the JLI cancer? That was on them) before it gets balanced into something normal.
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Pip
15 Jan 2021, 16:54 PM
#20
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2021, 15:56 PMgunther09
Nice work, good to kick-off this discussion
A goal could be: we do not need Commander Terminator in Master League anymore, as all commanders are useful.


Expecting all commanders to be equally viable in 1v1 is unlikely to come to pass. There are some things that are just more useful than others.
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