Remove counter-barrage.

not sure about that one. from the editor it appears that both abilities have the same (i.e. 250) range.

The ost mortar counter barrage says 100 range which is true so I dont believe the LEFH counter barrage has increase range.

I know im repeating my self, but changing the mid aoe to 0.28 and making you need to toggle counter barrage again after use would be enough. It should need some input.

Check Weapon Activation range. That overrides the weapon range if I remember correctly.

Edit: nope, 250 range best I can tell. Still a massively abnormal gun... and its Soviet clone is just worse. For no reason.

The Power of the LEFH counter barrage is related to the fact that Allies are granted self propeled gun which are less likely to get destroy during an Arty VS Arty fight while being mobile and thus much harder to get destroyed by off-map combo.

The scatter though is quite problematic, making it much more like an automatic random shell rain than a good counter arty tool.

Fuck me if im reading this correctly LEFH barrage has 500 range, im certainly going to test this.

Edit: Okay after testing, counter barrage dosnt increase range. Their is however in the abilities folder the victorbarrage. This means nothing most of the time but I decided to look at it anyway, its spooked me when it mentioned the counter barrage from the LEFH and has a value of 500 range.

Myth of increase range for LEFH counter barrage debunked.

Fuck me if im reading this correctly LEFH barrage has 500 range, im certainly going to test this.

Edit: Okay after testing, counter barrage dosnt increase range. Their is however in the abilities folder the victorbarrage. This means nothing most of the time but I decided to look at it anyway, its spooked me when it mentioned the counter barrage from the LEFH and has a value of 500 range.

Myth of increase range for LEFH counter barrage debunked.

Victor is the called by in map units.

Sexton has the same ability with valentine.

Victor is the called by in map units.

Sexton has the same ability with valentine.

Arr okay thanks, I guess thats for the artillery officer. Well nice to know you can use lefhs anywhere on the map if you have him in range.

Edit: not like this would be ever possible in a real game but on lienne forest I placed a LEFH on the bottom corner of the map and was able to fire at the top corner of the map.

Arr okay thanks, I guess thats for the artillery officer. Well nice to know you can use lefhs anywhere on the map if you have him in range.

Edit: not like this would be ever possible in a real game but on lienne forest I placed a LEFH on the bottom corner of the map and was able to fire at the top corner of the map.

Glad that I could help.

Arty as a whole is rather imbalanced.

Counterbarrage is bad design as it generally invalidates a lot of allied artillery pieces (Specifically Russian ones), though the allies have the Priest and Sexton which are not vulnerable to the same counters as fixed artillery pieces, and the Russians have the B4 RNG cannon that can delete medium vehicles when it gets lucky (But usually does nothing), which I would argue is the reason that it remains in the game.

I think if Counterbattery were removed then a lot of these units would need to be significantly reworked. SPGs are much too survivable, but conversely; fixed artillery pieces are alternately incredibly easy to counter (If your commander has an offmap) or exceedingly difficult to deal with (If you do not have an offmap, and your opponent actually defends his artillery, and places it in a safe position).

Simply removing it, as unpleasant as it is to deal with, I think would have a significant knock-on effect on balance without further changes.

Re-edited.

Edit:

	LEFH	ML20
Base dmg	160	200
AOE radius	8	8
AOE distance (close,mid,far)	2,4,6	2,4,6,
AOE dmg (close,mid,far)	1,0.35,0.05	0.9,0.28,0.05
total aoe dmg	160,56,8	180,56,10
Angle scatter	9.25	5
Fow angle/distance multiplier	1.75	1.25
Number of shells	10	8+1 with vet 1
Reload	2.25-2.75sec	3sec
Range	250-vet 3 around 305	250-vet 3 around 305

.......

Its giving me too much of a head ache to do all of them. This is considering OP is only taking about counter barrage on the LEFH. Hope this gives a better picture.

Thank you for the data gathering and breakdown, esp the table code o.O. My account was not an accurate picture of the situation. Wasn't sure due to the number of entries but does seem that CB gives a notable damage increase to the LEFH and parity with ML-20. Exceeding it on the mid aoe as you've described.

I would have replied in length but I think Darkpiatre put it succinctly and explained the current state of the LEFH (and imho why it's not likely to change).

EDIT: There is also the fact that even if the gun is not destroyed, a direct hit can knock out the crew and render any vet gain useless -> sending you back to zero when recrewing.

The Power of the LEFH counter barrage is related to the fact that Allies are granted self propeled gun which are less likely to get destroy during an Arty VS Arty fight while being mobile and thus much harder to get destroyed by off-map combo.

The scatter though is quite problematic, making it much more like an automatic random shell rain than a good counter arty tool.

The scatter I've found paradoxically can turn the CB LEFH into a squad destroying machine on inf marching through approaches to the frontline (where light artillery typically hang out). I stand by an earlier estimate of direct hit rates of 1/10 for CB LEFH on average (0-2 radius according to the stats table).
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AOE hits are not sufficient to kill a rocket arty in one hit, nvm SPGs though they can certainly wear down ML-20s and B-4s (Assuming the latter doesn't one-hit your LEFH). And obviously Calliopes don't care.

Add here that the ML-20 also has a bug that prevents you from shooting after the shooting has reloading. This makes the ML-20 completely useless, I recently built the ML-20 and I wish I hadn't done it, very bad characteristics combined with a bug is a waste of resources.

This "bug" is just a UI thing that also happens to the Lefh. After the barrage is over the UI goes to 1 second cool down and it looks like it's bugged but barrage is available again once the actual cool down is over so no actual harm is done and the only issue is that it's confusing to the user.

If you are facing arty on enemy team, as allies in 4v4, someone always needs to go recon, and someone offmap, someone Tanks, etc.

failure to do so leaves few options to deal with 105 lefh, so i would say that you are mostly to blame for not going one of these in a teamgame, if you get chewed up by enemy static 105lefh arty.

its like listening to people going german infantry doctrine, spams VSL squads and complaining when a kv-8 comes around the corner......

If you are facing arty on enemy team, as allies in 4v4, someone always needs to go recon, and someone offmap, someone Tanks, etc.

failure to do so leaves few options to deal with 105 lefh, so i would say that you are mostly to blame for not going one of these in a teamgame, if you get chewed up by enemy static 105lefh arty.

its like listening to people going german infantry doctrine, spams VSL squads and complaining when a kv-8 comes around the corner......

The issue isn't the leFH, its just Counter Battery as that's just friggen egregious with massive damage and AoE surpassing any other arti by a LOT. Its fine to punish lack of recon/off map, counter battery just churns your team with squad wipng random shells if you have any indirect fire.

The counter to a 120mm howitzer is.... a 105mm howitzer? That can sling 120mm rounds vs indirect?

The ML/20 lost its Precise Shot ability for being too egregious, instead getting a Vet 1 to make it competitive with the leFH. Why... does this disparity exist.

Another difference is that Lefh barrage does less damage to buildings (not emplacements)

counter battery dmg and accuracy can be toned down, and ML20 needs a new vet 1 ability

After reading so many time that Quad (and/or M36) needs to be OP AA because it the only AA Soviet (and/or the only TD USF ) get stock, I can't really say that I am surprised to see some else using a similar argument.

Those are not the same arguments as OP's, but I'm not surprised to see you saying this
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Counter barrage is mostly fine imo. It's not too oppressive or amazing, it's just right. Can be a bit wonky sometimes, but I don't think it's unfair in either direction

If the lefh feels too good with it to some then I think the ml20 should get a buff. The lefh feels just right the ml20 feels slightly underpowered

This "bug" is just a UI thing that also happens to the Lefh. After the barrage is over the UI goes to 1 second cool down and it looks like it's bugged but barrage is available again once the actual cool down is over so no actual harm is done and the only issue is that it's confusing to the user.

Maybe this is another bug, but after reloading the howitzer, the "fire" button is not active and it lasts in different ways for 10 seconds, 30, minutes .... This makes the howitzer unplayable.

Lefh counter barrage and UKF counter barrage had little in common.

Lefh required a vet 1 CP 8 howitzer with cost and pop and fired with CD. UKF counter barrage was a toggle (from CP 4?) with not cost with the only down side that one could not produce unit from a certain building.

Generally speaking Lefh counter barrage is strong but very much needed. It work as a soft counter to Priest, Sexton and calliope that have little counters other than diving.

I one removed counter barrage one will probably have to change artillery design or run the risk of turning large mod game in allied arty festival

they are both set and forget to counter all enemy indirect from mortar to howitzer. that they did different things to get there is irrelevant, the end result was the same.

Lefh counter barrage and UKF counter barrage had little in common.

Lefh required a vet 1 CP 8 howitzer with cost and pop and fired with CD. UKF counter barrage was a toggle (from CP 4?) with not cost with the only down side that one could not produce unit from a certain building.

Generally speaking Lefh counter barrage is strong but very much needed. It work as a soft counter to Priest, Sexton and calliope that have little counters other than diving.

I one removed counter barrage one will probably have to change artillery design or run the risk of turning large mod game in allied arty festival

Weren't you recently a great advocate of removing all abilities that require zero input and offer only rewards? Where did that attitude go? Did it dissipated because it is axis unit?

What prevents you to just manually shoot where allied arty is?

they are both set and forget to counter all enemy indirect from mortar to howitzer. that they did different things to get there is irrelevant, the end result was the same.

Not really.

The commander got the name "cancer" commander for a reason. Part of that reason was how op UKF counter barrage used to be.

Give axis already mobile arty like hummel.