RNG

While i think i understand what you are trying to imply, we almost had a model like that in the first days/beta of the game. But it's a nightmare to balance if all units behave in that way. Maybe it's worth trying again (deflection dmg) for CoH3 and applying a similar concept for infantry as well (early days all infantry had armor) with say "glancing" dmg been a thing for a failed penetration.

Deflection damage is basically a much simpler form of what I proposed, but it's much less flexible from designer's perspective - it's always the same set damage percentage that goes through on deflection. I think that it could be implemented for CoH3 if it was core part of the design.

In case of infantry, only the [accuracy * target size] modifier could be used, as there's in my opinion there's no need to add complexity there. Cover already adds another dimension to infantry combat and splash damage weapon add yet another.

@sanders hows this for data (watch to the end)

https://clips.twitch.tv/GlutenFreeSarcasticAlligatorLitFam

Thats brutal.

@sanders hows this for data (watch to the end)

Not sure why you are tagging me here, I'm not against removing MGC in its current state as I've said in a previous post here. I was asking for proof for a totally different claim.

I think ideally RNG would be split three ways:

- regular RNG like accuracy. Same as now. This is what makes the series truly stand out;
- irregular RNG like main gun critical or plane crashes. These should be available in automatch, but they should be less impactful. For example MGC could give an accuracy penalty rather than completely destroying the gun, or plane crashes could be hardcapped to never kill entire squads;
- Esports mode that removes all irregular RNG for tournaments.





If that were true, we would see a decline in player numbers over the past years as the game has become more competitively focused. However, the opposite has happened; the playerbase has been growing. The player numbers themselves don't tell us anything without deeper research.

While I don't want to shit on your work as well as on-going community efforts to support and try to improve the game I think you're a bit obviously biased towards your own work here and that's normal as anyone else and their "creation" so to speak.

However in reality it seems like you're just catering to the small percentage of players on here and that's what's keeping you because Relic cannot be simply bothered to pour in more resources since CoH2 isn't the money maker it once was a few years ago, however you're still somehow managing to roll in the dough so why not.

I think it's a rather different cause.

People can rally behind the competitive scene while also enjoying plenty of other things which are aimed towards the more casual players, even though the base PvP game is not changed with them in mind.

Compare the modding capabilities and custom games modes from WC3/SC2/AoE2. Even if Blizzard basically got swallowed by Activision, they basically got a free more years of support for SC2 by having a extremely popular coop mode. They made the base game free (IIRC), same with the arcade mode, which is way simpler to install, boot and play.

Similar cases with WC3/AOE2.

I don't know how many casual people follow the competitive scene exactly and I'm guessing that the main menu news feed is the main reason why some people are even updated or care about it in the first place but yeah like I said it's like football/soccer where people just sit in front of a screen and yell or in our case just shittalk on twitch and make memes which is somehow fun for them.

However just a note about AoE2, it's a game from 1999, so last century basically, and if it's still has a strong and loyal following and fanbase which is twice as large as CoH2's, a game from 2013 with albeit small updates for over 20 years now I think it's safe to say that they're formula is working and successful, as I would argue is CoH's which even after 14 years of being a somewhat niche RTS game still has a pretty good following of around 2000 people daily as you can see here: https://steamdb.info/app/228200/ which is not even something some new games out there can brag about, having less than 500 like Foxhole for example.

I think ideally RNG would be split three ways:

- regular RNG like accuracy. Same as now. This is what makes the series truly stand out;
- irregular RNG like main gun critical or plane crashes. These should be available in automatch, but they should be less impactful. For example MGC could give an accuracy penalty rather than completely destroying the gun, or plane crashes could be hardcapped to never kill entire squads;
- Esports mode that removes all irregular RNG for tournaments.





If that were true, we would see a decline in player numbers over the past years as the game has become more competitively focused. However, the opposite has happened; the playerbase has been growing. The player numbers themselves don't tell us anything without deeper research.

No.3 sounds boring AF. just another esport click feast then.

RNG should remain as RNG, random chances, as little player influence as possible

Besides imo since relic start giving away the game every holidays, that helped maintain the player base.
Yes there is also an influx of chinese players.

And Yes, we cant tell whether they will prefer the current state or if they had experienced the earlier state with more RNG and armor values doing work, they prefer that.

That said, player count is so low i get matched with top players like luvnest, hhans, cblanco, stormless in 3v3 4v4 rando lol!

Not sure why you are tagging me here, I'm not against removing MGC in its current state as I've said in a previous post here. I was asking for proof for a totally different claim.

Understood bud, glad to hear it, thanks and merry christmas!

No.3 sounds boring AF. just another esport click feast then.

RNG should remain as RNG, random chances, as little player influence as possible

Besides imo since relic start giving away the game every holidays, that helped maintain the player base.
Yes there is also an influx of chinese players.

And Yes, we cant tell whether they will prefer the current state or if they had experienced the earlier state with more RNG and armor values doing work, they prefer that.

That said, player count is so low i get matched with top players like luvnest, hhans, cblanco, stormless in 3v3 4v4 rando lol!

Random, uninfluencable chance is the main thing you like about CoH2?

Random, uninfluencable chance is the main thing you like about CoH2?

It´s the spiece which makes it unique!

It´s the spiece which makes it unique!

Some people seems to like just the spice rather than the ingredient which you are seasoning it with.

I do usually prefer when my meals aren't severely oversalted.

It´s the spiece which makes it unique!

Would that be one part spice, one-hundred parts a certain mineral crystal?

Random, uninfluencable chance is the main thing you like about CoH2?

not the main thing, but an important ingredient not to be missed.

instead of killing RNG.
I suggest to patch the path findings so vehicles dont do dumb things like spin around or get confused by clicks.

RNG is fine as long as it isnt rare AND extremely impactful AND unmitigatable.

Yes! A 1000% this. This is the problem with mechanics like Abandon and Main Gun Crit.

It's also really obnoxious when a tank instagibs an entire squad because they clumped when the tank shell hit. There's certainly a weird consistency problem, where King Tigers and IS-2's are unable to one-shot squads but ordinary stuff like Panzer IV's and T-34's are still perfectly capable of it. The range of RNG variance on an ordinary Medium Tank shot shouldn't vary from miss to instagib entire full squad. I think the maximum models hit per squad modifier (like on the T-70 now and mines) should be used across the board for most tanks. Being punished for not doing anything wrong is so frustrating. Infantry clump up all the time when moving around, you can't always avoid being clumped when moving and risk getting instagibbed.

that was awesome!
thats what makes coh2 better than sc2 or what else.

Yes! A 1000% this. This is the problem with mechanics like Abandon and Main Gun Crit.

It's also really obnoxious when a tank instagibs an entire squad because they clumped when the tank shell hit. There's certainly a weird consistency problem, where King Tigers and IS-2's are unable to one-shot squads but ordinary stuff like Panzer IV's and T-34's are still perfectly capable of it. The range of RNG variance on an ordinary Medium Tank shot shouldn't vary from miss to instagib entire full squad. I think the maximum models hit per squad modifier (like on the T-70 now and mines) should be used across the board for most tanks. Being punished for not doing anything wrong is so frustrating. Infantry clump up all the time when moving around, you can't always avoid being clumped when moving and risk getting instagibbed.

Worth stating that "Max models hit" does affect certain factions more than others.

Worth stating that "Max models hit" does affect certain factions more than others.

Tweaks can be made to compensate for not having cheesy frustrating RNG wipes.

Tweaks can be made to compensate for not having cheesy frustrating RNG wipes.

Oh i definitely agree with that, I think RNG wipes of full squads from one, say, T70 shot are AIDS. I'm all for reducing and removing egregious RNG.