Osttruppen Discussion and Feedback

This is literally the intended design and has not been an issue for years now. Ostheer has seen many metas and many with Gren builds.

It was working many year ago but it does not work anymore and that is why grenadier are problematic although they have been buffed. If you want to debate Grenadiers this is not best thread and we can do it another.

Also Osttruppen work as intended, they just appear to be a bit too strong in the current meta.

Ostt are strong but that does not mean that they ostheer faction should become the only faction that has to invest in tech to have access to their doctrinal CP 0 infatry, especially since there are other option available.

With ostruppen requiring T1 will they still worth getting over grenadiers for slightly more early map control, but a weaker late game unit?
In teamgames the main reason I would deploy ostruppen is to allow me to send my pios immediately to the most contested points and to get T2 faster, but they remain largely fragile for the rest of the game and thus being a pain (only pro is that they are great at recrewing team weapons). With T1 becoming a requirement there seems to be little reason to deploy them, and I'm wondering wether they still have a place in smaller gamemodes either.

Ostruppen problem is not ostruppen itself.

The problem is 4men Grens sucks and are not cost effective.

If 4men Grens could get a bolster-like ability like Brits or Sovs in the late game, they would be built instead of Ostruppen.

OST and SOV suffer from below average infantry non-doc, would like both factions to have an extra infantry added non-doc honestly.

regarding osttruppen, its a fine line between OP and useless, out of all the options available, i would prefer a longer call in wait compared to today, 30-35 seconds compared to todays 25.

when you build T1, grens are just 40mp higher, which are better in just about all regards, and scale better.

HQ is very busy the first 5mins of the game, adding osttruppen to HQ would be forcing the OST player to make priorities, which may be a good thing too, but this could go both ways.

220 mp cost may be a nail in the coffin

...

Maybe add two more options:
longer CD
Price increase

Increase cost to 220 and buff them.

-> 2 weapon-slots

-> vet 3 passive def. boost out of cover (e.g. 3-5sec 0,9 received damage)

-> non-doc sand-bags

With ostruppen requiring T1 will they still worth getting over grenadiers for slightly more early map control, but a weaker late game unit?
In teamgames the main reason I would deploy ostruppen is to allow me to send my pios immediately to the most contested points and to get T2 faster, but they remain largely fragile for the rest of the game and thus being a pain (only pro is that they are great at recrewing team weapons). With T1 becoming a requirement there seems to be little reason to deploy them, and I'm wondering wether they still have a place in smaller gamemodes either.

Sure they will. They will still be cheaper and cheaper to reinforce. If they remain a call-in then there will be no build time so you'll still get faster map presence than Grens. Ostruppen themselves will be unaffected but the build time and cost of T1 means the early game is slightly less oppressive which is the main balance problem with Ostruppen spam. I personally like it and voted for that option myself. Jibber's logic sounds legit to me.

Increase cost to 220 and buff them.

-> 2 weapon-slots

-> vet 3 passive def. boost out of cover (e.g. 3-5sec 0,9 received damage)

-> non-doc sand-bags

Sure, 20 MP more for a unit that reinforces for 16 MP with 2 weapon slots. Bias much?

Sure, 20 MP more for a unit that reinforces for 16 MP with 2 weapon slots. Bias much?

The unit is useless in late-game, so whats the problem? Are you loosing your weapons all the time? They had 2 weapon-slots most of the time.

The unit is useless in late-game, so whats the problem? Are you loosing your weapons all the time? They had 2 weapon-slots most of the time.

Useless late game? It can easily be used as cannon fodder and capture unit. It's useless in your hands perhaps. They are anything but useless.

Useless late game? It can easily be used as cannon fodder and capture unit. It's useless in your hands perhaps. They are anything but useless.

Wanna play 1vs1? Then I will steam-roll you, but play 3vs3+ and they are useless.

My ideas are very decent rebalance-way after beeing more or less destroyed with last patches. Longer refresh, now Faust gets nerfed. Now people play Osttruppen because the give option to build flamers and early PnzGrens.

Edit: The idea is to make them useful for large game-modes and not overpowerd in 1vs1.
-> 2nd weapon-slot can be locked behind T3 or T4.
-> passive-def.-bonus can be locked behind Vet3 or an upgrade
-> non-doc sand-bags will buff. all Osttruppen, also in other commanders.

Wanna play 1vs1? Then I will steam-roll you, but play 3vs3+ and they are useless.

My ideas are very decent and a rebalance-idea after beeing more or less destroyed with last patches. Longer refresh, now Faust gets nerfed.

Edit: The idea is to make them useful for large game-modes and not overpowerd in 1vs1.
-> 2nd weapon-slot can be locked behind T3 or T4.
-> passive-def.-bonus can be locked behind Vet3 or an upgrade
-> non-doc sand-bags will buff. all Osttruppen, also in other commanders.

Maybe you would. Maybe you wouldn't. I never play 1v1 so we shall never know. The fact that you want to buff a unit that has versatile defensive capabilities, whilst also being cheap to buy and reinforce, says enough. I mean, you think that they are useless in 3v3+ so I just give up trying to reason or argue. You are entitled to your own opinion

Other idea is:

Make them a 5men squad with an +1 man passive upgrade at T3.
-> price up to 220 (with +1man they become a 236MP unit)

For exta price give them 2nd weaponslot with +1man-upgrade

+ other ideas.

snip

Osttruppen are crap, every Ostheer-player knows that. Even people loving Osttruppen, like me.

For larger game-modes they are useless, but I also play them in 4vs4, because they are fun xD . But it becomes hard as f*ck to hold ground with them.


Make them more expensive and give some candy.

I never play 1v1 so we shall never know.

You know Osttruppen get nerfed because of 1vs1?

i like the idea of truppen starting out as a 5man squad.

maybe after BP1 is unlocked, you can upgrade to 6th man for 30 muni? like the gren can upgrade to mg42 LMG

or alternatively when T3 is built. give truppen a VSL with G43 for 45-60 muni, should give truppen a touch more offensive power?

I still do think that nerfs of ost\vsl wont change much in terms of meta.

Even if osts and vsl are overperforming, the ultimate reasoning behind why ppl playing only with them is not their perfomance.

Yes it provides more capping power, more pressere, but again I still think that the main prolem is how grenadiers are represented in the game right now vs UKF\USF.

Even in terms of scaling osts are not that much worse then grens, with the difference being that grens are stronger when first LMGs arrive, but they fall behind just like the osts vs vetter and upgunned allied inf. Sure, vet 3 lmg grens are better then vet 3 osts, but they are still outscaled pretty drastically.

Osts can do what grens fail to do.
Osts can deliver nasty damage on their own before they pushed away.
Osts can protect flanks effectively.
Osts are strong in a defensive possitions on their own.
Osts can capture weapons.
Osts wont bleed you that bad.
Osts have much better staying power in both defence and offence.

And, in terms of play, you as Ostheer still tied to an MG42, no matter you play with grens or osts.

Osts are just fitting the game, considering speed\phasing\odds faced.

Grens desing, on the other hand, just dont work. Idea behind grens always was to bleed enemy on approach and when he gets closer he wont have enouth firepower to deal with you, this is grens vs cons match up.

But you have tommies who are also long range inf, and they are better at such ranges, while grens are not made for any pushes so they cant push tommies.
Rifles are just very strong, allowing them to pretty much always free push grens when they are not supported by MG42 or its not 2 grens vs 1 rifle.

Even combination with 251, while being strong, it bleeds you like a pig.

Also some ppl give an argument that grens are cheaper, thefore you can outnumber your opponent. Its true, but at the same time, when outmatching is the only way you can win engagements, just means that you effectively need more to counter less.

i like the idea of truppen starting out as a 5man squad.

maybe after BP1 is unlocked, you can upgrade to 6th man for 30 muni? like the gren can upgrade to mg42 LMG

or alternatively when T3 is built. give truppen a VSL with G43 for 45-60 muni, should give truppen a touch more offensive power?

I was thinking about make +1 man passive with T3 and removing LMG42, instead give Osttruppen some "Beutewaffen" like 2 SVT + 1 PPsh (stat of assault-gren MP40) so they get same DPS as with LMG42.

"Long building time for Luchs", cough.