[Winter Balance Update] OKW Feedback

Agreed on the shrek spios change being huge.

To be honest I'd remove every other OKW change and just keep the combat package being available to an Spio after getting the sweeper. Big buff and that's all OKW needs at the moment.

Agreed on the shrek spios change being huge.

To be honest I'd remove every other OKW change and just keep the combat package being available to an Spio after getting the sweeper. Big buff and that's all OKW needs at the moment.

Completely worthless change imo. Okw has t0 Raketen and puma in mech. One shreck wont do anything vs any light vehicle with decent micro. This change would be maybe usefull if the flamer upgrade works the same, but the shreck-upgrade wont have much impact. If double shreck Pfs arent viable, single shreck Spios wont be the game changer.

Completely worthless change imo. Okw has t0 Raketen and puma in mech. One shreck wont do anything vs any light vehicle with decent micro. This change would be maybe usefull if the flamer upgrade works the same, but the shreck-upgrade wont have much impact. If double shreck Pfs arent viable, single shreck Spios wont be the game changer.

No

GiaA said it best.

Early to mid game infantry never kills LVs unless one side fucks up massively. The point is always to keep them at bay. 1 Schreck makes a MASSIVE difference. 1 Schreck shot means that you only need two Raketen shots to kill a 400 hp vehicle like the AEC. It also means that you cant circle strafe the Raketen. (Right now even when fausted you can take out one Rak once youre close) Effectively it has a similar effect as double Rak without requiring the additional unit.

I’ll piggyback on this and say this is absolutely huge in protecting the flak HT from stuart and AEC. In my test games I also found the shrek to be very good in contributing to vehicle fights. It had a really big impact.

A single Schreck has a noticable impact during the light vehicle phase:

Hit 1 Schreck shot = need 1 less AT gun shot.
Hit 2 Schreck shots = need 2 less AT gun shots.

So it has a similar effect to getting a second AT gun, but you trade range for mobility. This being available to Battlegroup without requiring tech or investing into another squad will help keeping the Flak Truck safe from dives if you're willing to invest into it.

Of course its effectiveness drops off during the medium tank phase, but even then some extra AT doesn't hurt.

Edit: My bad, this is exactly what giaa said.

on the Schreck thing, it helps protect, but also you lose a lot of ai from the squad and lose an upgrade for ai power. ai power and upragades that you really need as okw. okw will still be dominated early by ukf and usf and maybe fight a balanced battle with soviets.
I agree it opens a strategy with halftrack, we will see how good it is.

on the Schreck thing, it helps protect, but also you lose a lot of ai from the squad and lose an upgrade for ai power. ai power and upragades that you really need as okw. okw will still be dominated early by ukf and usf and maybe fight a balanced battle with soviets.
I agree it opens a strategy with halftrack, we will see how good it is.

That lack of AI is more than compensated by the Flak Halftrack itself. There's no unit in the game that wins you infantry engagements quicker.

I am not negating that. never gave it too much try before.

Alright, I'll give this new schreck SP 'meta' a go when this goes live. Previously just been using them (in combat) as Sturmtruppen in pioneer uniforms, a role they are most definitely very good at with vet......

it must be taken into consideration the high risk in this strategies. I cannot think of another unit that will f-ck your early-mid game as much as losing a fully upgraded sturmpio.
They are very hard to replace in current live game....

it must be taken into consideration the high risk in this strategies. I cannot think of another unit that will f-ck your early-mid game as much as losing a fully upgraded sturmpio.
They are very hard to replace in current live game....

Have you ever drove a T-70 over a teller before it took a first shot?

Anyway, shreck pio should be used as supplemental stop gap AT in early game and protection of puppchens later. Don't count on being able to make doom shreck blobs with them.

And every squad above 240mp is quite noticable to replace, so this is hardly spio only problem, thing is, you always want to have 1 around.

Ultimately I like most of these changes, the only things I would tweak is since Battlegroup HQ now saves you 10 fuel I would put the Hetzer and Ostwind back behind Panzer Authorization. It would also be interesting to see what kind of timing Obers would have if they reverted the Panzer HQ and Authorization costs back to 100 mp 60 fuel each but allowed Obers to upgrade the LMG or IR STG's. The current buff is nice but at least in 1v1 Obers probably still come just a bit too late to compete efficiently with vetted allied infantry at least until Vet 2. Volks are weak in the mid to late game so getting Obers out is crucial.

Bear in mind that in 2v2+, one can assume an AT gun is present in the enemy army you're facing, which will quite easily scare off the flak HT and thus discourage its purchase. The setup time has been a topic of considerable discussion in the past and I think this will continue to discourage players (though its AI firepower is nasty!)

I agree that we'll see a bit more flak HT in games as it's just not DoA vs UKF any more, but not much more usage. Pz IV rush is still extremely potent (which is fine) and overshadows this unit with a better game overall.

Another solution for the Obers would be to give some of their huge power gain form vet 2 to vet 1 or even 0. reduce vet 2 gains accordingly.

No

GiaA said it best.



I’ll piggyback on this and say this is absolutely huge in protecting the flak HT from stuart and AEC. In my test games I also found the shrek to be very good in contributing to vehicle fights. It had a really big impact.

But isnt one Volks with faust or one mine enough to hinder stuart and aec to kill the Flak ht? Where is the advantage to give up your best combat squad, which can lay mines and sweep them, to protect it vs light vehicles? And isnt that a much higher gamble? Cause when the first shot misses the flak is a free kill? And the chance to kill the light vehicle is way higher with faust than without. Or do you defend the flak with 1 volks and 1 Spio?

Bear in mind that in 2v2+, one can assume an AT gun is present in the enemy army you're facing, which will quite easily scare off the flak HT and thus discourage its purchase. The setup time has been a topic of considerable discussion in the past and I think this will continue to discourage players (though its AI firepower is nasty!)

I agree that we'll see a bit more flak HT in games as it's just not DoA vs UKF any more, but not much more usage. Pz IV rush is still extremely potent (which is fine) and overshadows this unit with a better game overall.

And raketen and paks discourage AA HT and Quads. Even more so the AA HT since it's cancerous to use and quite dumb when it comes to pathfinding/rotating.

And raketen and paks discourage AA HT and Quads. Even more so the AA HT since it's cancerous to use and quite dumb when it comes to pathfinding/rotating.

'U' towards enemy, right click to escape is cancerous? o.O I mean sure to a newer player the odd configuration is a bit much, but to experienced players it's no real issue.

As it stands I think the trio of AA HTs are fine for anti-inf duty, just the flak HT trades firing on the move for better killing power. That said, personally I wouldn't mind having weaker setup AI power for firing on the move.

'U' towards enemy, right click to escape is cancerous? o.O I mean sure to a newer player the odd configuration is a bit much, but to experienced players it's no real issue.

As it stands I think the trio of AA HTs are fine for anti-inf duty, just the flak HT trades firing on the move for better killing power. That said, personally I wouldn't mind having weaker setup AI power for firing on the move.

I know you don't play allies Vodyani but try playing USF a bit and you'll see what I mean.

Pressing buttons is not the problem. The constant rotating and turning is. You need to reverse into combat, before firing stop, and then pull the brake so it doesn't constantly rotate when trying to fire. The engine probably is telling the computer to turn the HT the "right" way but the arc of fire is in the "reverse" way. Horrible. Also, AA HT needs to stop to fire the larger caliber shells. On the move it can only fire the MG which suppresses poorly. The main gun needs the HT to be stationary to fire.
God forbid that the AAHT is in trouble and you need a quick escape, that sh** will rotate and rotate. The smoke on flak + fast deployment > AAHT. AA HT is still good, no doubt, but cancerous and worst AA unit of all due to tracking and constant bugging out. Flak is also much better AI but is slower and needs deployment, which is fast enough but still needed. Also smoke.
So I stand behind that the raketen is a much bigger cancer for AA HT than anything else is for the flak, due to smoke mainly.

imagine going crazy about 10 munitions

and yes, replacing a 300mp squad that has to fullfill alot of different tasks ingame is harder to replace than "anything above 240mp" lol

So some people really think reducing the Panzerschreck upgrade for Sturms by 10 munitions and making it possible to equip sweeper + Panzerschreck is going to be a big change and give OKW a huge boost?

What a non-sense. This change will do very little.

But isnt one Volks with faust or one mine enough to hinder stuart and aec to kill the Flak ht? Where is the advantage to give up your best combat squad, which can lay mines and sweep them, to protect it vs light vehicles? And isnt that a much higher gamble? Cause when the first shot misses the flak is a free kill? And the chance to kill the light vehicle is way higher with faust than without. Or do you defend the flak with 1 volks and 1 Spio?

The best way to counter the Flak HT is not by diving vehicles anyway but by getting an AT-gun and forcing it into constant muni usage + repair times and then getting a fast medium tank.