[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback

A Section behind cover, at 4 men, is basically still on par with Grenadiers. And by lack of utility I don't just mean snares, I don't mind them not having snares. My issue is that there is really only one way to effectively use Sections, and that is blob and a-move them, Brens or no. I'd like to see more diverse loadouts available, with Scoped Enfields available being akin to G43s in role, and Bolster operating as a distinct upgrade path rather than as a necessary evil. This is all just a pipe dream sadly.

UKFs AT department is crazy good:

- really good AT gun
- sniper with stun shot
- pios with AT nade and double piats
- AEC which is great in other armor combinations
- mines
- 17pounder
- comet
- firefly
- etc etc

UKF has better nondoc option than OSt or OKW. far better

UKFs AT department is crazy good:

- really good AT gun
- sniper with stun shot
- pios with AT nade and double piats
- AEC which is great in other armor combinations
- mines
- 17pounder
- comet
- firefly
- etc etc

UKF has better nondoc option than OSt or OKW. far better

OSTs AT department is crazy good:

- really good AT gun with stun
- grenadiers with super long range snare
- pgrenzs with shreck
- elefant with op range damage and stun ability and self spotting scopes
- teller mines
- pak 43
- panther
- stug
- etc etc

Ost has better nondoc option than UKF, USF, Soviets. far better

OSTs AT department is crazy good:

- really good AT gun with stun
- grenadiers with super long range snare
- pgrenzs with shreck
- elefant with op range damage and stun ability and self spotting scopes
- teller mines
- pak 43
- panther
- stug
- etc etc

Ost has better nondoc option than UKF, USF, Soviets. far better

hmm..do you realize that some of this option is only avaible with a speacial doctrine?

hmm..do you realize that some of this option is only avaible with a speacial doctrine?

Last time I've checked, you're supposed to pick a doctrine when you play.

Last time I've checked, you're supposed to pick a doctrine when you play.

Iirc, when people compare AI power of PzGren vs Shock,Commandos,Ranger,Para
You said "non of those Allied options is stock units"

Iirc, when people compare AI power of PzGren vs Shock,Commandos,Ranger,Para
You said "non of those Allied options is stock units"

Comparing faction AT options is slightly different topic then comparing a very specific unit that does not even have stock equivalent.

Iirc, when people compare AI power of PzGren vs Shock,Commandos,Ranger,Para
You said "non of those Allied options is stock units"

PzGrens are like terminators. Truly devastating and far superior than allied mainlines. And never forget that PzGrens come early and act like mainline.

PzGrens are like terminators. Truly devastating and far superior than allied mainlines. And never forget that PzGrens come early and act like mainline.

Stock Cons, and maybe upgraded Cons, stock RM are sure weaker than PzGren. I dont think double Bar RM is that weak vs them.

Stock Tommy can poke down at least 1 or 2 PzGren until they get close. Not mention 5th men and double Bren

They're just hopeless vs Allies AI doc infantry (equal manpower for 50% tougher).

I feel the current state Allies mainline-PzGren-Allies AI doc infantry is just the same as Core med tank-Panther-TD


Put PzGren in Tier2, 10fuel from Tier1 to Phase1 (this will make the tech to get PzGren up to 70fuel instead of 40). Put all Elite infantry to 3 CP.
Still, I feel Tommy need a tone down.

why are you all whinging about pzgrens in the ukf feedback? it honestly makes it look like 'my faction bad, that faction gud waaah', keep the discussion relevant to UKF and cry in the ostheer feedback if you must but try to be constructive at least

So, there will be no change to the infantry section ? it is kind of sad to see a chance like this slip away without anything to address the issues with them. The raid package was a nice try at least, though the direction is not the finest and it got abandoned to soon. i still hoping for something to happen in patch 1.5.

like, i belive the medic section's cost increase should be undo and change to that it take up a weapon slot for 30 muni. It is a simple change and can solve a couple of problem.

like, i belive the medic section's cost increase should be undo and change to that it take up a weapon slot for 30 muni. It is a simple change and can solve a couple of problem.

Which problems exactly? Because Brens are hardly meta anyway because of how strong stock 5 men IS are and without double Brens, UKF will have a hard time dealing with Axis elite infantry.

Which problems exactly? Because Brens are hardly meta anyway because of how strong stock 5 men IS are and without double Brens, UKF will have a hard time dealing with Axis elite infantry.

sorry but im confused, you say bren is not meta but then say they are needed ?

Still, im a UKF main so if the mod team's opinion is that double bren are not an issue then i will take that, but i head a lot of complain about self-heal bren section blob. i can say Double bren is not oppress in term of firepower but the heal on top of that make it sift to stronger side.

By making medic take a slot, it can break up the medic spam, require a decision to be make chosing between raw firepower and utilities, encourage pp to mix up more pyro in to the built (compare to mostly 1 pyro and 2-3 medic as now), as well as open more space for the medic squad.

I already suggest before that both pyro and medic should take a slot, with the elements from raid package combine into pyro, but it seem like the team dont want to take such a large amount of work to i simply scale down the wish, since i very dislike the price increase of medic section upgrade. It make a fully equiped medic section more expensive than RM dowble BAR while uk already quite muni heavy with all doc. And it look like a lazy solution.

Anyway, it is just my thought, tho.

Churchill MGs in general, including the pintle, don't seem to do anything whatsoever to garrisons. Also crew grenades no longer appear to work at all. Stay unable to hit a crew weapon at close range, hence the grenades are required.

DPS even with the Vet 1 pintle seems to be below that of a PIV. Which seeing as it has nigh on identical main gun and armour just makes it an expensive and very very slow version of it.

Vickers vet 1 aimed fire ability is trash and will never be used. Takes ages to kick in as the crew has to reload first and then is very underwhelming for the cost. 2 of them using aimed fire on a mere Puma barely even tickled it. Seemed to screw up the facing too as I had an issue where after using aimed fire it then refused to face in that direction again. Leaving an re-entering the garrison sorted it but would make it useless in a game. Completely borked in my opinion.

Cromwell ability is deeply underwhelming. Only use I can foresee is as a map hack in heavily congested maps, where you wouldn't be using a Crom anyway. The range of it seems to represent a second or so's worth of merely driving. If chasing a PIV or Panther then is doesn't make much sense, it doesn't last long enough to get a bead on them, maybe get one round off whilst it is still active. If there was more DPS from the MG then I didn't really notice it. Firepower seems well sub PIV levels, armour paper in comparison and the tradeoff is that it is ever so slightly faster, though not to the extent you can actually get round the back of a diver. Still a waste of resources barring emergency use in my opinion and the wrong direction for it..

The pit... Is going to be a problem. The barrage is reasonably strong though I didn't detect much difference between 1 and 2 mortar barrage, which will encourage single pits a long way behind the front. First mortar is accurate and hits hard... Second just seems to spray it around randomly especially at max range. Also the new barrage adds to the existing one... So you have to use the lighter barrage at closer ranges and the heavier one at longer ranges. Which incentivises merely spamming them way back behind the front. With Advanced Emplacements this is going to cause some serious rage in teamgames especially.

Also no difference in the smoke barrage ability between 1 and 2 mortars. I'd have to be very flush on manpower ( no laughing there from UKF mains) to upgrade to double pits rather than just building another one.

IS Pyro now rather pointless given the sight range nerf. Medic upgrade seems the same but costs far more. Maybe situational, as in upgrade one if an opportunity for the base howis show's itself... Because the Brits are always so flush with munitions that they have to be drained of them at every opportunity.

Medics seem almost entirely pointless, very slow healing rate which doesn't seem to conform to the patch notes. Other than being locked in place outside of base I can't see a use for them... In which case they are precisely 20 manpower superior to building a 'forward' assembly there, but cost you 5 manpower per minute. Hence they are..... Of very minor use for exactly 4 minutes. Though even during that golden 4 minute period they also reduce you maximum army size by 3% so situationally they are actually useful for somewhat less than those 4 minutes.

Officer's recon was pretty damned amusing. Choose a tiny sliver of the map for a lot of munitions and then wait.... Don't bother thinking you can... fight, manage units or micro... You wait. Eventually, it might even be a randomly looooooong time, a very fast recon plane shows that tiny sliver of the map. Oh unless you blinked. Maybe those younger and quicker on reaction time might possibly once every 5th or 6th attempt be able to trigger an offmap with the sight given, though I'd definitely want a replay as proof if anyone manages this.

Meanwhile command vehicle seems to have lost this 'ability'? Probably a stealth nerf. Also no longer highlights it as a command vehicle. Using one the Bofors and all tanks seemed to show a slight improvement though not the 17 pdr or pit. Couldn't tell any difference on infantry.

Supposedly the sniper has been changed for a higher ROF? Not that I could tell. Though can now be spotted by light vehicles that you can't even see so... Equals dead sniper.

UC now costs fuel, which has been tried numerous times before and always resulted in no sod ever building one. I happily predict the same again.

Overall impression is a long list of nerfs with the buffs being either tiny or bugged and useless abilities. The only exceptions being the pit, which UKF will I think rely on utterly, sappers coming out earlier... Presumably to fix the UCs which noone will build and to die bravely to Sturms. Oh and the AEC / Bofors lockout. Which combined with the pit barrage will make Brits even campier, and Advanced Emplacements more popular. Yay the joy!

Though I'm rather suspicious of the pit. Haven't tested it against the changes to Axis indirect but we'll probably find they are just vet givers to such. The barrage has a long cool down and certainly isn't responsive enough to target stukas and the like even if you could spot them, also seems to do strangely little to OKW trucks. 3 barrages of a double pit on a Shwerer didn't quite kill it.

If I was playing Ostheer however I'd forget about any MG42s around the VPS ( they could be barraged from not far outside UKF base on many maps), and the Vickers aimed fire might well affect light vehicle play a lot. Barely tickles a Luchs but 222s and HTs would go down quickly. Pioneers versus bolstered RE's isn't going to be funny either.

We'll see...

Meanwhile command vehicle seems to have lost this 'ability'? Probably a stealth nerf. Also no longer highlights it as a command vehicle. Using one the Bofors and all tanks seemed to show a slight improvement though not the 17 pdr or pit. Couldn't tell any difference on infantry.

There are never any stealth nerfs or buffs, at least never on purpose. All changes are documented.

The Command Vehicle is unchanged and works perfectly fine. It has the recon plane. It never affected emplacements, only vehicles and infantry.

There are never any stealth nerfs or buffs, at least never on purpose. All changes are documented.

The Command Vehicle is unchanged and works perfectly fine. It has the recon plane. It never affected emplacements, only vehicles and infantry.

Command vehicle aura effected emplacements but was removed in DBP:

"Command Vehicle
We are readjusting some of the most extreme risk-reward elements of the ability to allow it to be integrated in more strategies.

Command Vehicle no longer affected by a speed penalty or a received accuracy penalty. Still retains the -50% accuracy and the +100% reload time modifier.
AVRE Petard mortar abilities now affected by the reload time increase
Aura no longer affects emplacements
Command Vehicle recon cost to 50 munitions
Loiter time reduced from 90 to 45.

Command Vehicle Aura

Accuracy decreased from +35% to +20%
Cooldown bonus decreased from -30% to -20%
Reload bonus reduced from -30% to -20%
Received accuracy modifier removed"

But the vehicle suffered speed penalty and target size.

There are never any stealth nerfs or buffs, at least never on purpose. All changes are documented.

The Command Vehicle is unchanged and works perfectly fine. It has the recon plane. It never affected emplacements, only vehicles and infantry.

Bit off topic from me as I don't think it has been changed in the balance patch.

Though I did put it on an aec and no recon available, bofors showed a command buff icon but infantry didn't. I only really wanted to compare the recon to the officer's.

Out of interest is the UC still excluded from being used as a command vehicle?

Played a few games versus the OKW AI, really struggle for map control mid game.. Feels even harder than it did previously. Luchs seem to be quite a problem.

Wondered whether it was just me so I pitted the AI versus AI on both live version and the balance patch. On live OKW wins after about 25 minutes ( 2 games) versus 15-18 minutes on the balance patch. On live UKF seemed to strengthen and have some counterplay after about 10 minutes. On the balance patch it was just a steam roller all game. Sturms with shrecks shut down light vehicles in both.

Doesn't feel very balanced.

Didn't seem so different against Ostheer. Vickers ability seemed effective against halftracks. Pit was effective in barrage against garrisons and MG42s, also rather effective against light vehicles if you got a lucky hit. Tried AI versus AI and results seemed very similar... Ostheer won after about 20 minutes in live and balance.

Also tested the Stuka against emplacements... 2 hits kills a pit easily on normal barrage. Once they get their vet 1 napalm though... Jeez... RNG plays a role but it is basically the UKF flame mortar barrage only 40 munis rather than 150 and more accurate. Even killed a 17 pdr (900 hp) in once salvo without brace. Also burns for about 30 seconds preventing you from repairing it during that time.

With a single Stuka targetting a pit or a bofors you would need to dedicate an engineer squad just to repairing it every 2 minutes. Vet 3 heavy sappers were taking more than a minute to repair.

I can't see any possible counterplay here... 2 Stukas, the second one firing after brace has worn off, will doom any emplacement.

Played a few games versus the OKW AI, really struggle for map control mid game.. Feels even harder than it did previously. Luchs seem to be quite a problem.

Which AI? Easy or Expert?
Expert has double resource, which a Light vehicle would cost 30-40fuel.

If Expert Okw AI go for Light tanks tech. It would be a pain to vs. I once lost a 4v4 game because enemy Okw player dropped, then the AI brought in 4 Lights. Dominate the mid game.


@Sander93:
Which problems exactly? Because Brens are hardly meta anyway because of how strong stock 5 men IS are and without double Brens, UKF will have a hard time dealing with Axis elite infantry.

I dont know how to explain on what i think.
Gren & Volk have much harder time vs Shock, Ranger. As their models are weaker plus less men (4-5men mainline vs 5-6men elite)
IS on other hand. 5men mainline vs 4men elite.

All mainline have a hardtime vs Elite infantry. And I believe IS has it the easiest. If you say IS should be that powerful because of Axis Elite, why not limit Elite squad down to 2-3 squads or something? Also push elite back to 3CP.

Elite infantry should only a new,better unit to call it. They should not be a replacement of mainline.
Then IS can be tone down abit.

Which AI? Easy or Expert?
Expert has double resource, which a Light vehicle would cost 30-40fuel.

If Expert Okw AI go for Light tanks tech. It would be a pain to vs. I once lost a 4v4 game because enemy Okw player dropped, then the AI brought in 4 Lights. Dominate the mid game.

Both AI were on expert... Have run it again on hard, same result in 19 minutes. Can't recall which I played against but it wouldn't have been expert.

I've also run hard AI UKF versus standard AI OKW and.... OKW won after an hour and a half.

I'll run Hard UKF versus standard Ostheer to see if that is as bad.

I really think the balance team should make greater use of AI to balance the game. Regardless of some self important poohbah or other 'thinking' that this or that faction or unit is OP the only possible way to pit two equally skilled opponents against each other is via the AI.

Edit: Ostheer on Standard also beats UKF on hard. After about 1 hour 20. Won quicker than OKW did but looked like a slightly more even game.