[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback

Piats are the second strongest inf AT weapon in the game, after panzerschreck. It only has slow firing speed out of cover. Check penetration values on them.
Super zooks are better, but at the same time standart zooks are shit and super zooks requare commanders and quite expensive squads.

UKF can have second strongest inf AT weapon on a second cheapest inf squad in the game (after rears) which can have AT weapons and also have snares with them.

PGs - expensive, small squad
Rangers\Paras - just expensive, requares commander
Rears - cheap but shit zooks
Rifles - snare but shit zooks

And objectively Royals are probably second best squad to have AT weapons on in terms of cost\effectiveness and abilities. First one being Panzerfusiliers, because they also do have snare and recon on top of that.



Hello, Sturmpios, my old friend, I've come to talk with you again.

Which PIAT stats are you looking at? Make sure its not the pre-rework mega deglection stats because the current one is a zook clone.

Piats are the second strongest inf AT weapon in the game, after panzerschreck. It only has slow firing speed out of cover. Check penetration values on them.
Super zooks are better, but at the same time standart zooks are shit and super zooks requare commanders and quite expensive squads.

UKF can have second strongest inf AT weapon on a second cheapest inf squad in the game (after rears) which can have AT weapons and also have snares with them.

PGs - expensive, small squad
Rangers\Paras - just expensive, requares commander
Rears - cheap but shit zooks
Rifles - snare but shit zooks

And objectively Royals are probably second best squad to have AT weapons on in terms of cost\effectiveness and abilities. First one being Panzerfusiliers, because they also do have snare and recon on top of that.



Hello, Sturmpios, my old friend, I've come to talk with you again.

Fusiliers lose their snare if they upgrade to Panzershrecks. Rifles and RoyE retain theirs.

*Cries in Sturmpios which are much more expensive and offer less* Atleast having sweeper and 1 shreck at the same time can make it valuable

*Cries in Sturmpios which are much more expensive and offer less* Atleast having sweeper and 1 shreck at the same time can make it valuable

They don't offer less... they offer different things.
Which other engineer offers healing? Or actual anti infantry control grenade?

They don't offer less... they offer different things.
Which other engineer offers healing? Or actual anti infantry control grenade?

Pioneers, and REs (Through urban Assault.) The latter depends on whether you consider their Rifle Grenade to be a grenade. (I do)

Pioneers, and REs (Through urban Assault.) The latter depends on whether you consider their Rifle Grenade to be a grenade. (I do)

Yeah, tho spios don't exactly need to be right next to you and are incomparably more muni efficient with their healing.

Rifle nade is weapon upgrade, not nade, neither its stock utility, which we are talking here.

Yeah, tho spios don't exactly need to be right next to you and are incomparably more muni efficient with their healing.

Rifle nade is weapon upgrade, not nade, neither its stock utility, which we are talking here.

Perhaps, though Spio healing is intended to make up for a factional deficiency, more than it being a "bonus". The stun grenade is nice, however.

I still think Spios are overpriced and overpopped for what you're getting. The new balance patch is somewhat addressing this though. Not really important to discuss in the UKF balance feedback, anyway.

I don't think RoyEs are going to be overpowered in this upcoming patch, but I think they're going to be quite strong. Their Veterancy is still a little weird though. Someone suggested making them a rifle squad that can upgrade to SMGs earlier in the thread, which sounds interesting, but I don't really see the point.

What i WOULD be interested in seeing is a change to the Officer, putting him at tier 0 (Instead of the REs?) as a Rifle squad, that can upgrade in a couple ways, (SMGs to become the current Assault officer, or with a Scoped Enfield with either a path/jli snipe, or a muni snipe) coupled with some other utilities.

I'm currently working on a tuning mod with this idea implemented. I think it might be interesting to see if the Officer could even be made to be the UKF starting unit... though this has the problem of further restricting UKF sandbagging. Either way, It's a fun project so I'm gonna continue. I doubt the Balans team is interested in user suggestions like this though.

Perhaps, though Spio healing is intended to make up for a factional deficiency, more than it being a "bonus". The stun grenade is nice, however.

That deficiency is beaing greatly diminished in this patch and spios are not getting a slap for it tho.

That deficiency is beaing greatly diminished in this patch and spios are not getting a slap for it tho.

The thing with it is that this is, ironically, making the ability less valuable. Medcrates are good value, but the fact they come in threes and can be stolen, means they're generally only worth using in base anyway.

They don't really need "Slapping" because their factional healing is becoming less restrictive. UKF didn't get slapped when Medics were introduced... despite already having the best healing in the game.

The thing with it is that this is, ironically, making the ability less valuable. Medcrates are good value, but the fact they come in threes and can be stolen, means they're generally only worth using in base anyway.

They don't really need "Slapping" because their factional healing is becoming less restrictive. UKF didn't get slapped when Medics were introduced... despite already having the best healing in the game.

IS medkits are getting slapped this patch for just that reason.

IS medkits are getting slapped this patch for just that reason.

Sure, but it took quite a bit of testing to determine that was necessary, and wasn't done at the outset of the patch. I don't think Spio crates are in quite the same ballpark, but it remains to be seen.

Sure, but it took quite a bit of testing to determine that was necessary, and wasn't done at the outset of the patch. I don't think Spio crates are in quite the same ballpark, but it remains to be seen.

Didn't really take testing though. Everyone and their dog knows that infinite aoe healing for the one time cost of a grenade available on all your core infantry without the need for vet or to even stop moving is stupidly effecient. I'm still not even sure why the brits got not 1 but 2 separate new medical options with that existing especially considering the healing options of literally every other faction comes nowhere near the effeciency of that one alone...

Didn't really take testing though. Everyone and their dog knows that infinite aoe healing for the one time cost of a grenade available on all your core infantry without the need for vet or to even stop moving is stupidly effecient. I'm still not even sure why the brits got not 1 but 2 separate new medical options with that existing especially considering the healing options of literally every other faction comes nowhere near the effeciency of that one alone...

Ostensibly they got Section Healing because Forward Assemblies come very late in the game, and for a high price.

Apparently they got the medic squad due to Lendlease providing an alternative mainline that can't upgrade to a Medical Section. It really wasn't an elegant solution.

Medical Sections should have been nerfed, but not because Medics exist.

The Forward Assembly has issues, as its use in 1v1 is a rear healing bunker, and in team games as a forward retreat point (because it cant get both retreat point AND healing for some reason). Its never used for healing when actually forward unless you're floating HUGE manpower. And rebuilding+reupgrading is so dang expensive... it dies to indirect fire or a single over run backed by a tank and its dead.

Ostensibly they got Section Healing because Forward Assemblies come very late in the game, and for a high price.

That is incorrect.
FA has not tech requirements cost 200/60 for healing. That is simply 40 manpower more than an oshteer bunker.

Apparently they got the medic squad due to Lendlease providing an alternative mainline that can't upgrade to a Medical Section. It really wasn't an elegant solution.

The argument does not hold water, since even if one goes only assault IS one will still have an IS to upgrade to heal and still would have the option for FA.

In addition since this a doctrinal problem it should have a doctrinal solution so the medic should be included in the doctrine (for instance it could be mounted on the m5)

Medical Sections should have been nerfed, but not because Medics exist.

Medics should simply not exist at stock unit for UKF

That is incorrect.
FA has not tech requirements cost 200/60 for healing. That is simply 40 manpower more than an oshteer bunker.


The argument does not hold water, since even if one goes only assault IS one will still have an IS to upgrade to heal and still would have the option for FA.

In addition since this a doctrinal problem it should have a doctrinal solution so the medic should be included in the doctrine (for instance it could be mounted on the m5)


Medics should simply not exist at stock unit for UKF

It's 25% manpower more, at a much later stage in the game. It's not insignificant.

That does mean you will have 0 Pyro sections, however, and Pyro sections provide good utility to UKF. I'm reasonably sure this argument still holds water.

I agree that they shouldn't be an Unit for UKF, they should either have Base healing, or alternatively they should be able to build FA at the same time as an Ostheer bunker, but with only healing unlockable/usable until an extra premium is paid at the usual teching time, at which point you can get the usual benefit of an FA. What i'm saying is: Medical Sections are AIDS and should have been nerfed regardless of whether or not Medics exist.

Especially since UKF get RoyEs at tier 0, this would be the best solution, I feel.

It's 25% manpower more, at a much later stage in the game. It's not insignificant.

That does mean you will have 0 Pyro sections, however, and Pyro sections provide good utility to UKF. I'm reasonably sure this argument still holds water.

Don't want to duel here so will try to keep it sort. Difference between FA and Ostheer bunkers are not that great an I do not think that assault IS spam is that viable, in addition it doctrinal issue that should dictate the addition of stock unit.

I agree that they shouldn't be an Unit for UKF, they should either have Base healing, or alternatively they should be able to build FA at the same time as an Ostheer bunker, but with only healing unlockable/usable until an extra premium is paid at the usual teching time, at which point you can get the usual benefit of an FA. What i'm saying is: Medical Sections are AIDS and should have been nerfed regardless of whether or not Medics exist.

Especially since UKF get RoyEs at tier 0, this would be the best solution, I feel.

Think we can all agree that UKF have sufficient healing options even without the medic sqaud.

Think we can all agree that IS simply have too much utility with cashes/spotting/healing/sandbags/trenches.

It is my opinion that some of that utility could and should be move RO.E. especially if they are moved to T0.

That might include some building staff but could also include upgrades like heal and Pyro. Then balancing IS would become allot easier.

Don't want to duel here so will try to keep it sort. Difference between FA and Ostheer bunkers are not that great an I do not think that assault IS spam is that viable, in addition it doctrinal issue that should dictate the addition of stock unit.


Think we can all agree that UKF have sufficient healing options even without the medic sqaud.

Think we can all agree that IS simply have too much utility with cashes/spotting/healing/sandbags/trenches.

It is my opinion that some of that utility could and should be move RO.E. especially if they are moved to T0.

That might include some building staff but could also include upgrades like heal and Pyro. Then balancing IS would become allot easier.

The difference really isnt insignificant. You can build a bunker from minute 0, you can't do the same with an FA, and it is indeed more expensive. If that was the UKF's only medical device then they would be undeniably shafted in terms of medical availability. There's not much to say against this. The simplest solutions would really just be to give UKF base medics, or, as i suggested previously, allow them to build FA for the price of a Bunker, at the timing of a bunker. (And later be upgradeable to a "real" FA for tech/utility purposes)

IS are overburdened, and this has clearly caused some balance issues for UKF. Replacing Medical Sections with some alternative "Combat" upgrade would be ideal, as would moving Trenches to RoyEs.

I can't get behind moving Sandbags to RoyEs, however, unless they became the starting unit. All other factions either have their builder unit making sandbags (While also having them as the default unit, allowing them to immediately go and start setting up), or they have their mainlines produce sandbags, so later availability isnt as meaningful, due to the fact you will have ~4 squads being able to throw them up.

Shuffling abilities between RE and IS would be nice, but it would need a fair amount of consideration. I still think the Officer should be made the standard unit, given rifles, and various upgrades/utility abilities, incidentally. The Officer could even then be made to be the unit with the medical upgrade, somewhat like the Commissar.

If lend lease was the reason for wasting time and effort on a medic squad they could have simply given the halftrack, the one in lend lease, the ability to drop crates or AOE heal or heal inside or lock down like an ambulance or given ass tommies self heal with vet or given ass tommies medkits with vet or without vet.
There are like 10 systems in the game already that don't need constant fine tuning...

The baseline pop cap of the Medic squad should be 2, while the reinforce cost in popcap should be reduced to 0. This would bring it in line with the Pop cap of the Ambulance and discourage players from sending medic squads out to lose 1-2 models.

Medkits needs to be reworked into something else. Either bring them in line with other field healing options or put together some form of offensive upgrade for sections.