Well the patch just did...
plus buff panther.
[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback
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19 Dec 2020, 14:11 PM
#741
Posts: 177
19 Dec 2020, 14:11 PM
#742
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
This does not necessarily say anything about the other options, it mostly says something about how easy and relatively cost effective it is to use a ram + offmap. Players will always choose the easiest and most effective option. That doesn't mean that without ram, the Soviets are suddenly powerless. They have plenty of other options.
That being said, Jaeger Armor is definitely on the list to get nerfed too, but it's unsure whether or not we can do this in this patch or the next one.
Why not just revert the penetration increase or even go as far as lower it down to 140. Keep the removal of the odd small chances crits, reduce the stun duration to 3s on deflection and keep the T34 with main gun crit and engine/heavy engine dmg.
Implement the change to the IL2 rocket strafe you suggested before (reduce penetration and give deflection dmg) which is the only one which is the most egregious in regards to comboing against heavies due to how far away it can dmg vehicles from called location and cost effectiveness.
NOW, if you have the possibility of having a future patch which you can touch the Axis heavy TD, go for it and further nerf/tweak ram.
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19 Dec 2020, 15:11 PM
#743
Posts: 1289
Well the patch just did...
Exactly, the entire stock soviet mid to late will be very weak if this patch goes live. Every unit in the mid game got a nerf, t34 and su85 nerfed in t4, with minor buffs in the early game to compensate an already weak early game.
Its not like soviet where strong or op in the late game now where they?
And you still support ram nerf/removal with no buff for the t34 at least with so many nerfs to the stock rooster and isu?
19 Dec 2020, 15:41 PM
#744
Posts: 1289
This does not necessarily say anything about the other options, it mostly says something about how easy and relatively cost effective it is to use a ram + offmap. Players will always choose the easiest and most effective option. That doesn't mean that without ram, the Soviets are suddenly powerless. They have plenty of other options.
That being said, Jaeger Armor is definitely on the list to get nerfed too, but it's unsure whether or not we can do this in this patch or the next one.
I apriciate all the work still being done on this game, but this (nerf) patch will not help soviets in the slightest. They where far from op. The high number off nerfs late game make no sense to me.
Nerfing nearly the entire mid and late game with nothing in return doesnt make other options more viable imo, esp if the opposing side gets buffed in that same late game. Other options where not effective and now even less so, you will nearly always end up trading badly considering your are likely going to loose more units then you kill.
Soviet will need to go t34 85 is2 and isu doctrines. Td spam will be even more common, the t34 76 will be a pointles unit in the bigger games.
19 Dec 2020, 15:43 PM
#745
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Exactly, the entire stock soviet mid to late will be very weak if this patch goes live. Every unit in the mid game got a nerf, t34 and su85 nerfed in t4, with minor buffs in the early game to compensate an already weak early game.
Will just have to wait and see unless you can provide replays from preview where soviet struggle.
I suspect you will neither notice the changes to SU-85 nor to the Panther.
Its not like soviet where strong or op in the late game now where they?
They where strong and still are strong in late game.
And you still support ram nerf/removal with no buff for the t34 at least with so many nerfs to the stock rooster and isu?
The changes to Ram are nerf to ram/off map combo which needed a nerf, they meant as nerfs the T-34/76.
T-34/76 is a cost efficient unit even without ram.
I am sure why you are focusing in my opinion thou since I would like to see a number of changes implemented.
19 Dec 2020, 16:07 PM
#746
Posts: 1979
T-34/76 is a cost efficient unit even without ram.
no it is not... this has been discussed countless times in the T-34 thread and you have failed to make an adequate argument... stop insinuating lies vipper
19 Dec 2020, 16:09 PM
#747
Posts: 1289
Wil just have to wait and see unless you can provide replays from preview where soviet struggle.
They where strong and still are strong in late game.
The changes to Ram are nerf to ram/off map combo which needed a nerf, they meant as nerfs the T-34/76.
T-34/76 is a cost efficient unit even without ram.
I am sure why you are focusing in my opinion thou.
In live 1v1 they dont struggle. And are not op. They are solid. In 1v1 without ram the t34 is cost effective but nothing special unless massed.
I have no problem with the ele countering allied td's but soviets need a viable counter to it. And with these changes they wont imo.
In 4v4 t34's only viable use is to ram because its wrecked in an instant, it doenst last in nearly any engagement.
Its main gun only tickles panthers tigers and other 260 plus armoured units. Its ai isent strong enough to make it worthwhile, any at support wil force the t34 off before it does enough or any ai damage.
It doesnt have any utility to make up for it being the weakest medium.
Flanking is none excistant there, thats if the t34 had strenghts to flank to begin with..
without ram (wich is gutted with these changes) its is a pointless unit in 4v4.
I only focused on your remark because it stood out to me. Same with any that think nerfing an entire or near entire mid/late game of any faction for that matter is a good change.
19 Dec 2020, 16:44 PM
#750
Posts: 366
I dont really like the penal upgrade from mobilize reserves especially of you go penal builds.
You pay for quicker xp gain and reduce reforcment cost by 2. Considering mobilize reserves cost 100mp and 20 fuel you only start getting your mp worth after loosing 50 penal models.
This also further makes it more fundermently flawed to unlock once you reach tier 4 because most penals may already have vetted and you have better options. Again better choice to get in tier 3.
You pay for quicker xp gain and reduce reforcment cost by 2. Considering mobilize reserves cost 100mp and 20 fuel you only start getting your mp worth after loosing 50 penal models.
This also further makes it more fundermently flawed to unlock once you reach tier 4 because most penals may already have vetted and you have better options. Again better choice to get in tier 3.
19 Dec 2020, 18:40 PM
#752
Posts: 1954
Stop playing statistics numbers or tests in a vacuum and start playing the game and you will see that the T-34-76 sucks.
It's classic vipper. You should know by now that there is no such thing as a underpowered allied unit. There are only underappreciated allied units. The only way to fix that is to nerf all of the other units from the underappreciated unit's tier until people use the underappreciated unit.
I actually think the T34/76 is fine in 2v2's or less. The T34/85 should be the stock tank for 4v4's. It's bizarre that Soviets have their 1942 units while axis have their 1945 units. But it's also bizarre that the ISU was somehow considered in scope but the JT and Elephant are not. I also think the feedback from anyone who plays Soviets in 4v4 is going to be really negative for this patch.
19 Dec 2020, 18:50 PM
#755
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
In live 1v1 they dont struggle. And are not op. They are solid...
Nice to see that, unlike some other users who are on crusade to convince everyone that Soviet are the worse faction by far, we agree.
In 1v1 without ram the t34 is cost effective but nothing special unless massed.
Nice to see we agree.
I have no problem with the ele countering allied td's but soviets need a viable counter to it. And with these changes they wont imo.
Nice to see we agree.
In 4v4 t34's only viable use is to ram because its wrecked in an instant, it doenst last in nearly any engagement.
Its main gun only tickles panthers tigers and other 260 plus armoured units. Its ai isent strong enough to make it worthwhile, any at support wil force the t34 off before it does enough or any ai damage.
It doesnt have any utility to make up for it being the weakest medium.
Flanking is none excistant there, thats if the t34 had strenghts to flank to begin with..
without ram (wich is gutted with these changes) its is a pointless unit in 4v4.
Although I generally agree that is an issue that has more do with most stock mediums and not with T-34/76.
I only focused on your remark because it stood out to me. Same with any that think nerfing an entire or near entire mid/late game of any faction for that matter is a good change.
On the other hand soviet got a number of buff like 3 PTRS cheaper and better healing, Su-7.
And on the other hand Ostheer got a number of nerf in the crutch doctrines so one has to see where chips will fall.
19 Dec 2020, 19:17 PM
#759
Posts: 1289
Nice to see that, unlike some other users who are on crusade to convince everyone that Soviet are the worse faction by far, we agree.
Nice to see we agree.
Nice to see we agree.
Although I generally agree that is an issue that has more do with most stock mediums and not with T-34/76.
On the other hand soviet got a number of buff like 3 PTRS cheaper and better healing, Su-7.
And on the other hand Ostheer got a number of nerf in the crutch doctrines so one has to see where chips will fall.
I personaly feel the only 3 things that might or will help are the healing buff, easier smoke barrages on the mortar and the ptrs buff on penals. The m3 change is fine but wont do much in 4v4
They however do not compensate or rationalize the massive broad stroke nerfs across mid to late game.
If all these changes are final soviet late game in 4v4 is crippled massivly. 1v1 will mostly be intact, just 0 ramming and mid game will be harder.
All they viably can do in 4v4 is spam su85/katty or go isu or is2 docs. 3 of wich axis mains already consider to be op or god tier op. Nerfs request will triple on those units by the next patch.
19 Dec 2020, 20:22 PM
#760
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I personaly feel the only 3 things that might or will help are the healing buff, easier smoke barrages on the mortar and the ptrs buff on penals. The m3 change is fine but wont do much in 4v4
They however do not compensate or rationalize the massive broad stroke nerfs across mid to late game.
If all these changes are final soviet late game in 4v4 is crippled massivly. 1v1 will mostly be intact, just 0 ramming and mid game will be harder.
All they viably can do in 4v4 is spam su85/katty or go isu or is2 docs. 3 of wich axis mains already consider to be op or god tier op. Nerfs request will triple on those units by the next patch.
It is nice to see that you make a distinction in large and small modes.
When it comes to 4v4 I think that doctrinal changes like removing stuka/elefant combo will fix a number of issues.
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