[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 11:03 AMVipper

A Super heavy TD can not be countered by tanks and TD well that makes sense.

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 11:07 AMMr. Someguy

But then what does counter an Elefant? It cannot be countered by T-34 or SU-85, so that leaves you with ZiS-3 and PTRS. ZiS-3 is not very mobile and would take a very long time to chip away at an Elefant, which can just drive away and get repaired. You would also have to protect them from counter-attacks, which you will have to do with zero armor support, because there is an Elefant... As for PTRS, they're not killing an Elefant any time soon.

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 11:16 AMVipper

Well depends on the Mode one plays.

Imo Elefant or not that great without numerous supports and if a team has concerted so many unit in one part of them map the opponent should either attack another side of the map of use artillery on the supporting units.

Things will probably improve once Elefant loses the Stuka...

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 11:24 AMKatitof

The only thing to get indestructible ele is to have a pair of ATGs behind it.
Nothing hardcounters ele on soviet side.
There used to be couple of things, but they were doctrinal mainly and/or removed/made importent against it already.

You pretty much need to completely not know how to play the game and be attacked by much greater force of armor to lose ele.

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 11:29 AMVipper

A TD supported by ATGs couneting armor, works as intended.

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 11:34 AMKatitof

Yeah, except for that little fact:
It has no problems backing off from ATGs and its most certainly isn't going to be destroyed or even threatened by PTRS rifles.
See the problem yet?

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 11:34 AMKatitof

I mean, you should, given how you claim SU-85 is op and how you can't deal with it.

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 10:45 AMMr. Someguy

I would try to argue that in the grand scheme of things, the cheapest and easiest way to deal with a Heavy Panzer is sacrificing a T-34 and ~200 munitions does speak volumes for the effectiveness of other options

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 11:49 AMSander93

This does not necessarily say anything about the other options, it mostly says something about how easy and relatively cost effective it is to use a ram + offmap. Players will always choose the easiest and most effective option. That doesn't mean that without ram, the Soviets are suddenly powerless. They have plenty of other options.

That being said, Jaeger Armor is definitely on the list to get nerfed too, but it's unsure whether or not we can do this in this patch or the next one.

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 11:03 AMVipper

A Super heavy TD can not be countered by tanks and TD well that makes sense.

Imagine what would happened if allied stock TD counter counter every axis vehicles from Kubel to Elefant...

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 11:56 AMKatitof

What is intended way to counter ele, 2 paks and brummbar with some of regular inf/hmg around in 2s?

That's genuine question.

Can't use arty, which seems like most obvious counter to such encampment, because it gets insta deleted by scout+stuka.

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 12:02 PMMr Carmine

It doesnt excuse the fact that t34 ram plus off maps is basicly the only way for soviets to counter such a unit without taking staggering losses making at a bad trade. And that method is being taken away with no alternatives given... that is the issue here.

The t34 imo fails as a generalist, fails in shock value, fails as a flanker, and despite being cheap fails as a atrrition tank.

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 12:06 PMVipper

I have year ago that stuka should be removed from Elefant.

This is from 2018:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/81270/commander-rework-approach

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 11:03 AMVipper

Imagine what would happened if allied stock TD counter counter every axis vehicles from Kubel to Elefant...

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 12:19 PMvgfgff

Your argument is unfair for soviet side.
no offense but Are you main axis?

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 12:19 PMvgfgff

Axis do have Panther that can counter every soviet tank from scout car to Su-85. and that is a stock unit.
while soviet need a lot of doctrinal unit but now they nerfing the non-doctrinal aspects instead of some specific ability.

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 12:19 PMvgfgff

there have a lot of issue about counterpart for soveit in difference game mode.
such as. to counter elephant may need to use zis cannon but there have call in/rocket truck or brumbar standing on a field too.
and brunbar are appear to be a frontline heavy AI tank. that bounced a lot of AT shot.

Su-85 should be counter a tank effectively but vet 2 nerf wouldn't be make any sense.

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 12:12 PMKatitof

Yes.
You did.
Everyone else did as well.
It was never done and I don't believe it will be.

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 12:47 PMmrgame2

I would even say in 2v2, panther is overrated.

Just watch this high level game, su85 and Jackson can shut down panthers and tiger.

Just play 2v2 and you understand 60 range and stock recon is more deterministic than panther 'high' hp armor

Panther turret main gun takes too long and since Allies TD got the hp buff, they can take on panther as much otherwise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFNaDrCqvvw

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 12:09 PMVipper

One can not nerf the Elefant unless he also nerf allied TDs at the same time.

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 13:46 PMMr Carmine

You also cant nerf allied td's without nerfing panther and tigers...

Jump back to quoted post19 Dec 2020, 12:38 PMVipper

I suggest you try playing in 4v4 in team without Ele or JT and see what you can do against enemy TDs.