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[Winter Balance Update] USF Feedback

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23 Dec 2020, 19:09 PM
#261
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

USF ver 4

Officer Transfer Orders

--A good option add to vehicles crews also (although I would rather have replace the vet 1 ability that could be move to elite armor doctrine)

M1 81mm Mortar

--Pls stop buffing the USF mortar.

The unit is simply not weaker than other mortars while it come with no tech unlike other moratrs.


M7 Light Anti-Vehicle Mine

--A good change

Pack Howitzer

--PLS fix the HEAT barrage which is OP.

M15 AA Half-Track

--Good change.

-----
Other:
--M20 pls bring upgrade inline with other units and replace the MU cost manpower/fuel there is not reason for this inconstancy.

--Major bring in line with other infatry and make smoke and barrage share CD or removed smoke from the unit.
24 Dec 2020, 01:59 AM
#262
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 307

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 19:09 PMVipper
USF ver 4

Officer Transfer Orders

--A good option add to vehicles crews also (although I would rather have replace the vet 1 ability that could be move to elite armor doctrine)

M1 81mm Mortar

--Pls stop buffing the USF mortar.

The unit is simply not weaker than other mortars while it come with no tech unlike other moratrs.


M7 Light Anti-Vehicle Mine

--A good change

Pack Howitzer

--PLS fix the HEAT barrage which is OP.

M15 AA Half-Track

--Good change.

-----
Other:
--M20 pls bring upgrade inline with other units and replace the MU cost manpower/fuel there is not reason for this inconstancy.

--Major bring in line with other infatry and make smoke and barrage share CD or removed smoke from the unit.

1/ then buff tank crews repairs.
2/ by lacking range than Ost, OKW inderect fire, M81 trully a Mirco mortar. Not to mention going M81 first would give USF a handicap.
3/ Howie in patch test is useless autofire stuff. testing in V3 need around 7-9 barrages to gain vet 2. And yet HEAT is not OP as all. HEAT barrage is the answer for Turrle playstyle even it is not effective as rocket arty.
4/No !, M20 armor skirt update is Balanced. This is unity car, not direct combat armor car. If you want MP/fuel upgrade than change .50 cal to 37mm canon.
5/ He is Major, not your private.
24 Dec 2020, 07:53 AM
#263
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Dec 2020, 01:59 AMtheekvn

1/ then buff tank crews repairs.
2/ by lacking range than Ost, OKW inderect fire, M81 trully a Mirco mortar. Not to mention going M81 first would give USF a handicap.
3/ Howie in patch test is useless autofire stuff. testing in V3 need around 7-9 barrages to gain vet 2. And yet HEAT is not OP as all. HEAT barrage is the answer for Turrle playstyle even it is not effective as rocket arty.
4/No !, M20 armor skirt update is Balanced. This is unity car, not direct combat armor car. If you want MP/fuel upgrade than change .50 cal to 37mm canon.
5/ He is Major, not your private.

There is a hole analysis on mortar and the result is quite clear. The auto fire of Ostheer and USF mortar are about equal and in live Ostheer mortar has a slight edge in barrage.

The patch improves the barrage and the cost.

That will simply make USF mortar superior to Ostheer and that simply goes against faction design. Ostheer have inferior mainline infatry and superior support weapons and vice versa.

As for major you seem confused they do not actual fight so they do not carry smoke grenades, privates do fight.
24 Dec 2020, 08:23 AM
#264
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 19:09 PMVipper
USF ver 4

Officer Transfer Orders


--A good option add to vehicles crews also (although I would rather have replace the vet 1 ability that could be move to elite armor doctrine)



Having withdraw orders in the ui of a unit itself is a bad idea as it is a suicide button that you can accidently click. If it would be implemented it should be a 6th commander slot like the KT so it requires 2 clicks to activate.
24 Dec 2020, 08:46 AM
#265
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



Having withdraw orders in the ui of a unit itself is a bad idea as it is a suicide button that you can accidently click. If it would be implemented it should be a 6th commander slot like the KT so it requires 2 clicks to activate.

Idea and implementation are two different things.

I personally would move the ability to HQ so one would have to click the ability from HQ and then click on the officer or vehicle crew.
MMX
24 Dec 2020, 10:12 AM
#266
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Dec 2020, 07:53 AMVipper

There is a hole analysis on mortar and the result is quite clear. The auto fire of Ostheer and USF mortar are about equal and in live Ostheer mortar has a slight edge in barrage.

The patch improves the barrage and the cost.

That will simply make USF mortar superior to Ostheer and that simply goes against faction design. Ostheer have inferior mainline infatry and superior support weapons and vice versa.


since you mentioned the mortar analysis, i've just realized that i've mistakenly used the wrong aoe profile for the m1 while calculating the performance back then (should've used m1_81mm_mortar_team_mp instead of m1_81mm_mortar_mp... who would have known >.<)
it should thus be a bit worse than its german equivalent.
will update the guide with the correct numbers soon(tm)
24 Dec 2020, 10:32 AM
#267
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Dec 2020, 10:12 AMMMX


since you mentioned the mortar analysis, i've just realized that i've mistakenly used the wrong aoe profile for the m1 while calculating the performance back then (should've used m1_81mm_mortar_team_mp instead of m1_81mm_mortar_mp... who would have known >.<)
it should thus be a bit worse than its german equivalent.
will update the guide with the correct numbers soon(tm)

That is great

Can you pls also add the "new" USF mortar
24 Dec 2020, 18:24 PM
#268
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954



Having withdraw orders in the ui of a unit itself is a bad idea as it is a suicide button that you can accidently click. If it would be implemented it should be a 6th commander slot like the KT so it requires 2 clicks to activate.


It's in the base UI, so shouldn't be that big of a deal. It seems like you should get a nominal refund, even if only 50 manpower. Other than that, I'll just use it as a scout because the tiny bit of vet that they get probably isn't worth as much to me as knowing more about their positions.
Pip
24 Dec 2020, 20:01 PM
#269
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



Having withdraw orders in the ui of a unit itself is a bad idea as it is a suicide button that you can accidently click. If it would be implemented it should be a 6th commander slot like the KT so it requires 2 clicks to activate.


It ain't on the unit. It's on the Barracks.
24 Dec 2020, 21:00 PM
#270
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 731

Officer Transfer Orders,without resources?Why not just reduce Officer population?
24 Dec 2020, 21:24 PM
#271
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Officer Transfer Orders,without resources?Why not just reduce Officer population?


Pop is used to tune desired number on field. you want to get as much presence as possible as quickly as possible. Therefore, USF always open 3 rifles into officer(except specific docs). Getting a second officer is 5 units of mainline. COH is balanced for 3-4 units of mainline map control, so any more can be and is oppressive. Thats why the pop cost.

Because we cannot decouple the "free" officer and tech, back teching results in an unnecessary officer. Officer Transfer Orders is literally the smallest change for dealing with the unnecessary Officer.
Pip
24 Dec 2020, 21:43 PM
#272
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



Pop is used to tune desired number on field. you want to get as much presence as possible as quickly as possible. Therefore, USF always open 3 rifles into officer(except specific docs). Getting a second officer is 5 units of mainline. COH is balanced for 3-4 units of mainline map control, so any more can be and is oppressive. Thats why the pop cost.

Because we cannot decouple the "free" officer and tech, back teching results in an unnecessary officer. Officer Transfer Orders is literally the smallest change for dealing with the unnecessary Officer.


Honestly, I would quite like it if all factions had access to something like "Officer transfer". Its not rare (In teamgames especially) to have "too many" units and be unable to reinforce because of it, especially if you've stolen team weapons. Is there a balance concern as to why factions can't simply tell units to "go away"?

Admittedly its more important for USF due to the fact they HAVE to get officers along with their tech, though. I like this change for them.
24 Dec 2020, 22:52 PM
#273
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Dec 2020, 01:59 AMtheekvn

1/ then buff tank crews repairs.

wut?
more than all your stock armour already having an engineer built in? perhaps they should be able to temporarily turn the tank in to a perishing? like what do you want here?
25 Dec 2020, 01:18 AM
#274
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 307


wut?
more than all your stock armour already having an engineer built in? perhaps they should be able to temporarily turn the tank in to a perishing? like what do you want here?

my answer to Vipper nerf. Good luck with RE repair speed. Crittial Repair give USF paper armor evading quickly against Superrior Axis tank, Take it out for what ? Who invest more micro shall have more advantages than another.
Unless you Give Rear Echelon real impact espect, you shouldn't change tank crews. Just let them alone.
25 Dec 2020, 01:24 AM
#275
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Dec 2020, 01:18 AMtheekvn

my answer to Vipper nerf. Good luck with RE repair speed. Crittial Repair give USF paper armor evading quickly against Superrior Axis tank, Take it out for what ? Who invest more micro shall have more advantages than another.
Unless you Give Rear Echelon real impact espect, you shouldn't change tank crews. Just let them alone.

You do understand that, even if crit repair was removed, the crews would still exist AND repair at the exact speed that is more than sufficient right now in live right? The only change would be engine damage and broken guns would still hurt usf like it does other factions. If you had no RE ever you would STILL be better off than other factions as your crews are right there.....
25 Dec 2020, 01:39 AM
#276
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 307


You do understand that, even if crit repair was removed, the crews would still exist AND repair at the exact speed that is more than sufficient right now in live right? The only change would be engine damage and broken guns would still hurt usf like it does other factions. If you had no RE ever you would STILL be better off than other factions as your crews are right there.....

you take something you give something. Take Crit repair out for no reason and ?
MMX
25 Dec 2020, 04:28 AM
#277
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

quick question: does the aoe nerf to the pack howie only apply to autofire or is the barrage also affected?
25 Dec 2020, 09:07 AM
#279
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Dec 2020, 04:28 AMMMX
quick question: does the aoe nerf to the pack howie only apply to autofire or is the barrage also affected?


Only to autofire. The barrage is meant to stay strong.
MMX
25 Dec 2020, 10:52 AM
#280
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1



Only to autofire. The barrage is meant to stay strong.


ah, i assumed it would, but wasn't sure from the patch notes. thanks a lot for confirming.
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